Last month, friend of the blog Keltic posted over at his own blog about the phenomenon of anti-gay bloggers employing below board tactics when confronted with an opposing view. I’ve seen it before, and I’ve dealt with it before, but it’s happened to me again, and I’m a little ticked off.
On Monday, blogger Charlene Jamison (who goes by the screen name californialily) posted an outrageous entry about California’s Proposition 8 on this November’s ballot. You know, the anti-gay one that removes our right to marriage as guaranteed under the California state constitution.
Being the reasonable person who assumes the best in people (stop laughing), I replied with a fairly calm response offering to debunk all of the claims in the piece she’d cut/pasted in. I even provided a few links to get her started if she wanted to research it herself. I also attempted to explain why religion is irrelevant to Prop 8. Of course, she deleted my response and posted a reply to two small bits that she felt able to swat down. Both responses had been covered in the portion that she deleted. Funny, that.
Fortunately for me (and you, gentle reader), when I replied I checked the option to send responses to my email. So the whole thing still exists, and while Charlene Jamison has every right to censor whatever she wants on her blog, it’s a bit dirty pool, and I have a right to re-post it here. I worried a little last night about the possibility that I’m being petty, but I’ve decided that petty as it may be, I’m also refuting the outrageous claims that Ms. Jamison made on (and still hasn’t deleted from) her blog and that some people still believe are facts.
So here, in the form of screen captures, are the posts in question. They’re all pretty large, so I’m not posting them inline, choosing instead to link to the images.
First, there’s Charlene Jamison’s original blog posting. I posted a link to the live version at the top of the post, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she deleted it. I noticed while writing this that she’s now deleted her reply that can be seen on this screencap.
Next up is my reply, captured by my email. Also included is Charlene’s reply to the two snippets that she didn’t delete. Since they contain valuable information, the links in my response are as follows: “The Box Turtle Bulletin”; “For example”; “comes from Paul Cameron”.
Finally, here’s a second response I made, which I never expected to see the light of day. And I was right! Hooray for expecting people to hide from truth!
And that’s my real problem with this. Charlene posted something that was incorrect and when that was pointed out, she chose willful ignorance over accepting truth. That’s what’s behind a lot of the anti-gay bias in both the church and society. Willful ignorance permits people (Charlene’s far from alone in this) to go on believing that Group X is beneath them, and that Group X doesn’t deserve the same rights and privileges as they have.
What’s so bizarre to me is that this kind of thinking is antithetical to real Christianity.
30 Comments
Another example of why they call these people cafeteria christians.
cafeteria christians? they must be allergic to that big bowl of honesty, they always seem to skip that one.
Great post, Matt. Thanks for the link.
keltic » Sure thing!
NG » That’s one of the things I don’t get. Ms. Jamison is divorced, for goodness sake. I wouldn’t have a problem with kids knowing that some families include divorced parents, but scripture says a whole against divorce. According to her logic (which I disagree with) we should be demanding that books showing families like hers be removed from curriculum.
The logical disconnect is startling.
I was going to post a reply to that nasty, hateful woman, but as she probably wouldn’t post it anyway, I’ll post it here instead.
“Wow. So much distortion, disinformation, and out-and-out lies there, I hardly know where to start.
Children could be adopted/fostered to homosexuals…so what? Study after study has shown that being raised by a same-sex couple is no more detrimental to children than being raised by a male-female couple.
Re: homosexual “promiscuity” - don’t you think that giving gay people the option of living a more settled, monogamous life would cut down on this?
Many homosexual encounters occur while drunk/high - hello? Have you been to a straight bar/nightclub lately?
73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age. Fair enough, I’ll accept that statistic, but…how old were they when they did this? ie is this a case of the nasty old fags taking advantage of teenage boys, as you would have us believe, or is this a case of teenage boys having sex with each other? How many straight guys do you think have had sex with teenage girls - WHILE THEY WERE TEENAGERS THEMSELVES?”
Methinks Ms. Jamison doth protest too much in her blog. What is she REALLY fighting against — herself? Hmmmmm. Interesting.
It’s a culture thing, and the heat is always turned up when a culture is shifting. The generation coming up next will be less caustic about the topic, and acceptance will spread. (Take my own 17-year-old son. His response: a shrug and “Everybody’s entitled to love the person they love.” Awwwww.)
Charlene Jamison is back with another anti-gay blog post. Her dangerous misunderstanding of the very nature of YHWH just makes me want to weep.
Here’s a screencap of her post.
Here’s a screencap of my reply at her blog.
Hello, thank you for sending me this link. I wanted to say that you’re welcome to bash me all you want. That’s okay. I am not angry.
I wanted to say that I deleted your comments because I am not looking for an endless arguement. You are not going to change your mind and I am not going to change my mind. However, if you were searching for some light in finding repentance and salvation, I would be more than happy to help you.
Lastly, I do not know the god you speak of even though you may use the name Jesus. I know Jesus and I walk with him everyday. The Bible warns of a reprobate mind and these are the people who see the opposite of what God’s word clearly states.
Out of the mouth of God himself:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Romans 1:18-32
God is showing his wrath upon sin and his judgement will come soon. I want you to know that God loves you still and he is still calling for repentance from all. Including everyone on this website. And right now, my heart is sad. I truly and sincerely hope you all decide to come to the Savior before it’s too late.
Sincerely,
Charlene Jamison.
Charlene » Thank you for your reply. A couple things:
You claimed in your post that lies are facts. I offered to help disprove the lies, and even gave you a few links that specifically addressed and disproved them. Yet you still say that you aren’t going to change your mind. That astounds me. One thing we know about Jesus is that He was all about the truth, yet you want no part of it, even though deceit is one of the horrible things you just quoted the Bible as being against.
I notice that you always use the King James Version. You might want to switch to a more current version, one that didn’t have King James’s fingerprints all over it. (Especially since it was/is pretty widely known that Jimmy was on my team, so to speak.)
You can quote scripture at me all day if you want. I tend to have a problem with people using the Bible as a weapon, but that’s your decision. Whenever you use Romans 1, though, you should keep in mind that a) the translation is questionable (in that Paul was possibly talking about the male prostitutes at the temple of Aphrodite, in which case he’s referencing idolatry. He’s certainly not referencing sex between two consenting adults) and b) Paul continues his letter in chapter two, in which he soundly eviscerates the argument that you quoted. He immediately begins with a warning against judging people. Kind of fitting, don’t you think?
Finally, a pledge. When you reply on my blog, post whatever you’d like. I blog about these things because I’m interested in the conversation. I don’t delete responses because I disagree with them.
I have to agree that it’s bad form to delete comments just because one disagrees with them. The great thing about blogging is that it is a First Amendment exercise. If one has the balls to have a blog, then one has to have the balls to accept what others say in response. Click on the link that Matt has provided to my story and check out the comments. Some of those got downright ugly. My entry was about Christians, conservatives, and anti-gay bloggers employing deceptive practices, lying, and deleting comments. There’s no way I could respect a blogger who deletes the comments with which they disagree, especially when the blogger responds to them anyway without the possibility of other readers seeing both sides of the dialog. And YES! It is always the “good christian folk” who do this. Funny how they are worried about their own First Amendment rights when it comes to religion, but they don’t mind violating the rights of others in their own blogs. Not a surprise though, seeing as how they think Civil Rights can be determined by a popular vote.
I disagree slightly; I think a person has the right to decide what does or doesn’t get posted on their own blog.
I also think, though, that deleting comments simply because they disagree with the blogger’s personal world view reveals a lot about the character of the blogger in question.
Just quick comment in defense of Charlene…calling her anti-gay is very unfair. Just because someone sticks up for their Lord and upholds His law and righteousness doesn’t mean they harbor hate for someone. Your pride and defensiveness is blinding you to the fact that she really cares for you all.
1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This verse means that the unregenerate, non-quickened by God’s Holy Spirit person cannot understand the things of God, and will in fact be against them. I’m sorry but your idea of “real” Christianity doesn’t have much credibility because you simply cannot perceive God’s Word.
Romans 8:6-7 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Lastly, Mr. Algren, have you forgotten about Sodom and Gomorrah? :) Sure, American Christianity is not in the best shape right now (a lot of apostasy and errant teaching), and if you base your understanding of God by it, you will sadly be misled and have the wrong idea. Throughout the Bible God expresses a strong disdain for homosexuality.
Well I hope nobody perceives this as an attack or hate, because it’s neither. I’m just defending a bold woman who has stood up for who she believes in. I hope you guys give me and honest listen, could maybe help ya out one of these days. :)
Sure, it takes a brave person to hold onto so much bigotry, hatred and ignorance in the face of evidence and facts!
Let’s give her a medal and a parade.
gee, thanks Mike. Now I get it! I’m just too much of an imbecile to understand just how sick, and how much of a sinner I am. Why thank you. It all makes sense now.
So, what should your “christian” love be to me now that I am this particular kind of sick idiot you have judged me to be? If I’m too sick to know just how bad I really am, how, then, can you hold us accountable for our incredibly sick actions?
How can you be absolutely sure, Mike, that gay christians do not have the mind of Christ? It’s easy to cast stones.
Quoting scripture, that conveniently supports your point, is known as prooftexting. You’re doing a lot of that here, and it’s because you want to hide your hatred behind God’s word. I’ve seen it before. Sodom and Gomorrah is mentioned in only 7 other scriptures outside of the Genesis story. Only 1, Jude, refers to a sexual sin, and that isn’t specifically mentioned as homosexuality, but rather “sarkos heteras” or strange flesh, with a definite “hetero” implication.
Mike, I’m sorry, I have to view your comment as attack and hatred.
What do Christians do when they offend their brethren? even the reprobate ones?
I would like to say that your comments about her being divorced is blinded by the fact that you don’t even know her. Charlene is one of the most amazing people I have ever known.
Her Biblical views are her freedom to believe. I read her blog and I have never seen anything against the Word of God. Yet your lifestyle IS clearly explained THROUGHOUT the Bible And if you care to research the older manuscripts BEFORE King James you’ll STILL find it taught that God is NOT happy with sexual sin.
Your comments about ‘King Jimmy’ is ludicrous as IF he was ‘on your team’ then he wouldn’t have it in the KJV, that it’s an ABOMINATION.
If you don’t like her blog then don’t read it. But she has every right to write about her beliefs. If you think her comments are bigoted, yet she never even says YOUR NAME, yet you come here and speak her name very openly. She writes about what God’s Word says about an issue that is prevalent in our culture today, which she has a RIGHT TO. Yet you come right out and bash her openly. She didn’t say anything about you PERSONALLY.
I can assure you that I know her well enough that when she realizes something in her life isn’t pleasing to God, she makes it RIGHT. Whereas you reason your way around God’s Word. She has given you the opportunity to discuss God’s Word with you in the event that you desire to know the truth and have the truth set you free. Yet you have not even responded to that act of kindness she has shown you. She could have come and said hideous things about you personally yet she offered you the hope that Christ wants to give you.
Now just as you have openly bashed her with YOUR hateful comments against her as a person due to her ‘beliefs’ I have no doubt that you may think to respond to me with your same hateful comments. Yet I won’t spend my time writing up an entire article dedicated just to you. Maybe Charlene can see this article as a compliment. Out of all the Christian blogs there are, you targeted her. Maybe you can find something better to do with your time.
I have gay friends whom I love dearly and I have heard their POV and they have heard mine. Yet we can have respectful conversations without such hate such as you have shown Charlene.
Two replies chock full of bits to respond to, and me without a computer to respond on. Isn’t it just the way? Mike and Lisa, I’ll respond at length tomorrow when I’m not typing on my phone. Ta ta!
oh, sisterlisa,
http://www.amazon.com/James-History-Homosexuality-Michael-Young/dp/0814796931
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_king_james_gay
http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/kingjames.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/d10734nh768032n0/
sorry, King James was a big ‘Mo
btw, sisterlisa, your gay friends hate you.
That’s why it’s called “the web” and blogging, “SisterLisa”.
If your going to talk shit about people, especially on a open blog, expect criticism.
Religion is a conduit to hate, apathy, hypocrisy, and ignorance.
I don’t know about the person who owns this blog, but I can tell you, or write you rather I speak/write from personal experience.
“Sisterlisa”: You and Charlene can try to sugar coat all you want; You can even add sprinkles and a cherry on top if you wish. But hate is still hate.
I have a question for you: If Proposition 8 were about taking religious rights, would you have voted for it?
How about women such as yourself losing the right to vote?
Oh and one more thing, SisterLisa: Your so called gay friends hate you.
Hi Keltic. :)
Please don’t take offense to the Scriptures I showed you about the carnal vs. spiritual mind. It’s not me slighting you or looking down on you, just the way things are. Without the Holy Spirit man cannot perceive the things of God.
I have love for you. I wouldn’t be spending time responding to you if I didn’t care. I haven’t judged you, I don’t know a single thing about you!
How can I be sure that gay Christians don’t have the mind of Christ? Well if a gay person that believes in Christ does not have a problem with their homosexuality, an immediate reg flag should go up. The Holy Spirit convicts believers of sin, and brings them to repentance. Being a Christian is a process of sanctification - a gradual growing process to be more like Jesus Christ. If, looking back after have been a professed believer for a time, you don’t notice a change in any sort of sinful behavior, you know something must be wrong.
2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
As Christians we are to examine our lives, and conform ourselves to Christ through God’s Word. Jesus used the example of a tree bearing good fruit - if you’re bearing continual bad fruit, chances are that you may not be genuinely saved. “Ye shall know them by their fruit.”
If a gay person professes Christ, has a problem with his sin nature, and is pleading to the Lord for help about it, that is a very good sign that that person IS saved, or at least on the path to salvation. :) Jesus preached BELIEVE and REPENT, for the Kingdom of God is at hand…not just believe! One must acknowledge their sin and turn from their ways, not just say they believe in God!
As for picking verses to support my claim…I’m sorry but the whole Bible is at harmony with itself about the idea of homosexuality. It’s not just frowned upon regarding Sodom and Gomorrah. There is nothing in the Bible that says a man laying with another man is an ok thing to do. Nothing. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and he does NOT change His ways.
Genesis 2: 23-24 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
1 Tim 1:9-10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
As you can see, God’s disdain of this sin isn’t limited to just the Old Testament or one incident. If you say you are a Christian and you believe in Jesus you would believe His words, because he IS the Word.
John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(see Revelation 19: 11-21 for a related section about Jesus being The Word of God.)
I’m sorry if you’re offended by this, Keltic. I really am. A cool verse just popped into my head, check it out…
Prov 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
I’m not bashing you. I’m showing you through the Word of God that the sin of homosexuality is wrong and is a dangerous thing to hold on to. Jesus is asking you to repent. ;) If you think you can go on being gay with no problem and that Jesus is ok with that, then you are holding on to a false gospel.
Why don’t you people stick your Bibles (even further) up your bigoted backsides and leave people alone to live their own lives in peace?
I skimmed it, Mike, because I’ve heard all those loving arguments. I also noticed that you ignored my questions. Ahh, just like a good christian always does.
but let me take note of something in your Genesis quote: Adam is thrilled with Eve, only AFTER God shows him all the animals and he just can’t decide which one should be his partner…….are we to believe that God thought bestiality should be the plan? Are we to believe that a human’s decision (Adam’s decision) is to be God’s plan for all humankind?
sorry, your christian love is still coming across as hatred.
Mike and Sisterlisa » I’m not going to use too much space, but I will hit a few points.
– No Mike, I haven’t forgotten about Sodom and Gomorrah. Unless we’re talking about rape (which we aren’t) the story is irrelevant to the issue of homosexuality.
–Lisa, as I said, I don’t have a problem with Charlene being divorced. But the Bible does, at least from a Biblical Literalist’s standpoint. It also could be said to have a problem with the cleavage she’s showing in her pictures. I don’t have a problem with them; I think the pictures are quite good, really. But if you approach the Bible from an Biblical Literalist’s point of view on one issue, then you must use that point of view on every issue.
– Lisa, I’ve been trying for some time to get someone to tell me what the homosexual lifestyle is. Since you invoked the term, please define it. I need to know what I’m being accused of.
– Lisa, I’m having trouble finding anything ‘hateful’ in this post or in my responses here. I offered to help Charlene educate herself on the lies she was being fed. I expressed disappointment in her editing my response out of existence in order to keep up the facade. That’s not hateful by any definition I know.
– Mike, it’s an amusing old trick to say, “well, you just can’t understand because you don’t have the Holy Spirit, since you’re obviously not a Christian, since you’re gay.” Not only do you get out of actually thinking, you get to claim that you’re better and on a higher plane than your opponent.
– Finally, all of this misses the entire point of the problem with [the now shamefully approved] Prop 8, which was about CIVIL marriage. As I said before, if the government were relying on a Christian definition of marriage, we wouldn’t allow atheists, Jews, Muslims, or any other non-Christians to enter into a civil marriage. Neither would we allow divorced people, the elderly, or those unable to produce children by natural means to marry.
By conflating the two concepts, you have successfully suppressed the rights gay and lesbians in California. This is not WJ, as they say, WD.
To Mike, Sisterlisa, Charlene, and any others:
1.Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations.
A friend of mine claims that this applies only to Mexicans but not Canadians.
Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2.I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3.I know I’m not allowed contact with a woman during her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15: 19-24)
The problem is how do I tell? I tried asking, but got biffed across the chops for my trouble.
4.When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev 1:9) The problem is my neighbours.
The odour annoys the hell out of them.
Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death.
Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that although eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10), he feels it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
I don’t agree.
Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts.
Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27.
How should they die?
9. I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but can I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend).
He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot.
Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16)
Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev 20:14)
Hey Lisa (and others)
We’re not attacking Charlene for her beliefs. She can believe whatever she chooses to.
We’re attacking her for her actions against her fellow human beings. For the lies she spreads about them in order to justify depriving them of their rights as human beings.
Ok, you don’t know the REAL reason why she is divorced. You don’t know her personally. She does NOT need to be with man who disrespected her, cheated on her - not just once, but more than once, neglected, forces her something she does NOT want to, etc. Now that’s all I will say. So leave her alone as to why she was divorced. She HAS good reason for being divorced. WOULD you stay with somebody who treated you like sh*t with no respect, etc? I think not. Thank you very much. Everyone is entitled to what they believe in. You can’t just shove in their throats and expect everyone to favor in gay marriage. Every person have different beliefs, opinions… about gay marriage. I, for one, I am neutral because it can get real ugly so I am staying out of it and am not going to get involved with this issue. And one more thing I would like to say, Charlene is very sweet, outgoing, down to earth, outspoken, will say it what’s her mind regardless if you like it or not, etc. I’ve known Charlene for few years. She is who she is and I love for who she is.
-Heather
It’s good to know that she’s a nice bigot, at least..
Anyway, what does it matter why this woman got divorced? It’s funny how “Bible Says No!” is all the justification you need when you’re trying to dictate how you think other people should be allowed to live their lives, but when it comes to yourselves you’ll bend over backwards trying to find a loophole.
I also find it interesting that you’re leaping to defend your friend from what you see as a ‘personal attack’, yet you’re fine with letting her personally attack, and lie about, and deny rights to, millions of American citizens whose “lifestyles” she disagrees with, even though it’s none of her (or your) damn business how other people live their lives.
Friends don’t let friends act like bigots.
“If you say you are a Christian and you believe in Jesus you would believe His words, because he IS the Word.”
I’m not a Christian. I’ve never read the Bible. So perhaps you could enlighten me, Mike, as to what exactly Jesus Himself had to say on the subject of homosexuality? If you don’t wish to copy the passages from the Bible yourself, just give me the Chapter and Verse numbers of the relevant passages where Jesus Himself directly addressed the subject of homosexuality, and I’ll look them up myself. Thanks ever so much!
Deafmom:
You say that Charlene has good reason for being divorced. What makes you think Matt and others don’t have good reason for being gay: namely that there’s a most definite possibility they were born with that predisposition? What makes her reason any better than theirs?
You say that everyone is entitled to what they believe in and that you can’t just shove your beliefs down their throats and expect it to work out okay. Likewise you can’t allow a friend to do the exact same thing to others, Deafmom. Matt and others have the same entitlement to what they believe and to be who they are without fear of harrassment from people like your sweet Charlene. Now, if you expect us to respect you and your beliefs, you first have to respect us and ours.
Matt is my cousin. I have known him for 26 years (More than just a few), and there is no better person than Matt; there is no one who wants to serve Christ more than Matt; and there is no one who deserves more respect than Matt.
You come to defend your “sweet” and “down-to-earth” friend who attacks my cousin for who Christ made him to be; sounds to me like you and Charlene are the one who need praying for.
Don’t come here and attack my cousin; don’t judge him; don’t judge his friends; and don’t judge others like him. For by the same measure by which you judge so you shall be judged also.
Jesus on divorce: Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”
Jesus on homosexuality: *crickets chirping”
Sorry, being “disrespected” is not a good reason to disobey the teachings of Jesus.
“I’m not a Christian. I’ve never read the Bible. So perhaps you could enlighten me, Mike, as to what exactly Jesus Himself had to say on the subject of homosexuality? If you don’t wish to copy the passages from the Bible yourself, just give me the Chapter and Verse numbers of the relevant passages where Jesus Himself directly addressed the subject of homosexuality, and I’ll look them up myself. Thanks ever so much!”
*tumbleweeds*
Yeah, I thought so.
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