Comments on: Historic Day for ELCA: Gay Marriage, Clergy Approved http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/ A gay Christian moving the forbidden from the footnotes. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:52:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-4605 John Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:02:00 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-4605 easily solved, approve gay marriage easily solved, approve gay marriage

]]> By: FLCTrojan http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-4595 FLCTrojan Tue, 16 Nov 2010 03:17:00 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-4595 To be a Pastor in the church is to be a leader, and example to others. To allow GLBT's to stand before the masses as the example of how to live your life according to God's Word is no different than having a flask holding alcoholic, or a bloody knuckled wife-beater, or an axe carrying murderer stand before me. My cousin is a gay Catholic priest. I have no problem sitting in his church when I visit. BECAUSE HE'S CELIBATE. He does not deny his past lifestyle, but he doesn't practice it today. I'll sit next to, eat dinner with, and be friends with any celibate GLBT person. It's what I'm supposed to do - love thy neighbor. This isn't about acceptance in the church. It's about Biblical authority and the way it is studied. Look up exegesis and you'll understand why some things like eatting bacon, shaking hands with a menstruating woman, or cutting your hair are no longer perceived as sinful. You have to take into account the audience and the state of the world at the time of the writing. Many of those examples could be linked to simple disease control. Not alot of running water, sinks and soap to wash your hands or refrigerators around to properly store your food back then. Nowhere in the Bible does it give examples of homosexuality being OK but there are plenty of examples to the contrary. The Ark had one of each, the Garden of Eden had one of each, etc. How long does any species last if it trends toward homosexuality? Social statements are meant to set policy and determine focus of mission in the church. I can't approve of advocating homosexuality as a lifestyle, and this is what the latest social statement does. How much good could have been done with the millions of dollars that was spent on this crap, and how much else will be missed on the millions the ELCA will spend on the genetics and feminism studies now underway? The time for arguement is over anyway. Folks that share my view that the ELCA has more problems than this one social statement and is overrun by eisegesis following theologians have formed a properly aligned and organized church called the NALC and I can't wait for my church to join it. It's embarrassing being in the ELCA with all this fighting and obvious confusion on the authority of the Bible. Resist the urge to make this personal in replies. It's important to remember that no matter how much we disagree that we all are following Jesus Christ and that's an awesome thing! To be a Pastor in the church is to be a leader, and example to others. To allow GLBT’s to stand before the masses as the example of how to live your life according to God’s Word is no different than having a flask holding alcoholic, or a bloody knuckled wife-beater, or an axe carrying murderer stand before me. My cousin is a gay Catholic priest. I have no problem sitting in his church when I visit. BECAUSE HE’S CELIBATE. He does not deny his past lifestyle, but he doesn’t practice it today. I’ll sit next to, eat dinner with, and be friends with any celibate GLBT person. It’s what I’m supposed to do – love thy neighbor.

This isn’t about acceptance in the church. It’s about Biblical authority and the way it is studied. Look up exegesis and you’ll understand why some things like eatting bacon, shaking hands with a menstruating woman, or cutting your hair are no longer perceived as sinful. You have to take into account the audience and the state of the world at the time of the writing. Many of those examples could be linked to simple disease control. Not alot of running water, sinks and soap to wash your hands or refrigerators around to properly store your food back then. Nowhere in the Bible does it give examples of homosexuality being OK but there are plenty of examples to the contrary. The Ark had one of each, the Garden of Eden had one of each, etc. How long does any species last if it trends toward homosexuality?

Social statements are meant to set policy and determine focus of mission in the church. I can’t approve of advocating homosexuality as a lifestyle, and this is what the latest social statement does. How much good could have been done with the millions of dollars that was spent on this crap, and how much else will be missed on the millions the ELCA will spend on the genetics and feminism studies now underway?

The time for arguement is over anyway. Folks that share my view that the ELCA has more problems than this one social statement and is overrun by eisegesis following theologians have formed a properly aligned and organized church called the NALC and I can’t wait for my church to join it. It’s embarrassing being in the ELCA with all this fighting and obvious confusion on the authority of the Bible.

Resist the urge to make this personal in replies. It’s important to remember that no matter how much we disagree that we all are following Jesus Christ and that’s an awesome thing!

]]> By: Ndabezinhle Mahaye http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-4588 Ndabezinhle Mahaye Thu, 04 Nov 2010 22:06:00 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-4588 I believe that there is no sin biggere than the other. If homosexuality is a sin which I think it is we all do not deserve to be in the church for we also everyday of our lives. I think that very good move by the ELCA approving the gay and lesbians marriage. this will actually opens doors for counselling if we think that is a sin. as much as we need forgiveness everday so are the gays and lesbians. I believe that there is no sin biggere than the other. If homosexuality is a sin which I think it is we all do not deserve to be in the church for we also everyday of our lives. I think that very good move by the ELCA approving the gay and lesbians marriage. this will actually opens doors for counselling if we think that is a sin. as much as we need forgiveness everday so are the gays and lesbians.

]]> By: Clem http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3861 Clem Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:27:41 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3861 Adding the term homosexual to a Lutheran pastor should be quite acceptable to our clergy. I am sure if we called our brothers in the cloth drunks, rapists, murderers, and drug addicts they would probably defend their calling. Didn't God also make the rapist and give him these special needs? Why should we try to change what God has ordained? Is taking the name of the Lord in vain really such a big deal--why not make them Bishops!!<br><br>I now listen to the "unity" sermons with contempt. I have lost all respect for the ELCA and will no longer fund them intentionally. When the Bishop comes I will read a newspaper during his sermon. Don't blame me--God made me this way--in his image. Our Lord overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple because he had so much contempt for the so called "Holy Men" that ran the place. Was he right in doing so? Martin Luther hung condemnations on the church door, started a whole new church, and watched 100,000 people die because of his departure. Was he right in doing so?<br><br>I would consider it an honor if the ELCA banned me from attending services but it will not happen--it is now a country club not a religion. God is not with these men and dishonor will come down upon their houses. Adding the term homosexual to a Lutheran pastor should be quite acceptable to our clergy. I am sure if we called our brothers in the cloth drunks, rapists, murderers, and drug addicts they would probably defend their calling. Didn't God also make the rapist and give him these special needs? Why should we try to change what God has ordained? Is taking the name of the Lord in vain really such a big deal–why not make them Bishops!!

I now listen to the “unity” sermons with contempt. I have lost all respect for the ELCA and will no longer fund them intentionally. When the Bishop comes I will read a newspaper during his sermon. Don't blame me–God made me this way–in his image. Our Lord overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple because he had so much contempt for the so called “Holy Men” that ran the place. Was he right in doing so? Martin Luther hung condemnations on the church door, started a whole new church, and watched 100,000 people die because of his departure. Was he right in doing so?

I would consider it an honor if the ELCA banned me from attending services but it will not happen–it is now a country club not a religion. God is not with these men and dishonor will come down upon their houses.

]]> By: Clem http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3642 Clem Fri, 05 Mar 2010 04:27:41 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3642 Adding the term homosexual to a Lutheran pastor should be quite acceptable to our clergy. I am sure if we called our brothers in the cloth drunks, rapists, murderers, and drug addicts they would probably defend their calling. Didn't God also make the rapist and give him these special needs? Why should we try to change what God has ordained? Is taking the name of the Lord in vain really such a big deal--why not make them Bishops!!<br><br>I now listen to the "unity" sermons with contempt. I have lost all respect for the ELCA and will no longer fund them intentionally. When the Bishop comes I will read a newspaper during his sermon. Don't blame me--God made me this way--in his image. Our Lord overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple because he had so much contempt for the so called "Holy Men" that ran the place. Was he right in doing so? Martin Luther hung condemnations on the church door, started a whole new church, and watched 100,000 people die because of his departure. Was he right in doing so?<br><br>I would consider it an honor if the ELCA banned me from attending services but it will not happen--it is now a country club not a religion. God is not with these men and dishonor will come down upon their houses. Adding the term homosexual to a Lutheran pastor should be quite acceptable to our clergy. I am sure if we called our brothers in the cloth drunks, rapists, murderers, and drug addicts they would probably defend their calling. Didn't God also make the rapist and give him these special needs? Why should we try to change what God has ordained? Is taking the name of the Lord in vain really such a big deal–why not make them Bishops!!

I now listen to the “unity” sermons with contempt. I have lost all respect for the ELCA and will no longer fund them intentionally. When the Bishop comes I will read a newspaper during his sermon. Don't blame me–God made me this way–in his image. Our Lord overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple because he had so much contempt for the so called “Holy Men” that ran the place. Was he right in doing so? Martin Luther hung condemnations on the church door, started a whole new church, and watched 100,000 people die because of his departure. Was he right in doing so?

I would consider it an honor if the ELCA banned me from attending services but it will not happen–it is now a country club not a religion. God is not with these men and dishonor will come down upon their houses.

]]> By: Marriage Save http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3612 Marriage Save Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:27:59 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3612 I don't understand why the trial judge has the right to cancel on a judge that has a higher rank I don't understand why the trial judge has the right to cancel on a judge that has a higher rank

]]> By: Matt Algren http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3341 Matt Algren Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:05:03 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3341 I assume your first sentence is referring to Galations 5. Other problem areas (other than "sexual immorality") found in this section include idolatry, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, envy, and drunkenness.<br><br>I have a feeling you aren't as adamant about casting out offenders of the rest of the list as you are about the one that doesn't affect you.<br><br>Secondly, I don't believe that homosexuality is condemned, either in the Bible or by God. So there's that. I assume your first sentence is referring to Galations 5. Other problem areas (other than “sexual immorality”) found in this section include idolatry, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, envy, and drunkenness.

I have a feeling you aren't as adamant about casting out offenders of the rest of the list as you are about the one that doesn't affect you.

Secondly, I don't believe that homosexuality is condemned, either in the Bible or by God. So there's that.

]]> By: Tony http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3334 Tony Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:19:12 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3334 Biblicly, a Christian is obligated to point out to any who would listen that sexual congress outside of marriage is condemed and that those who practice these things unrepentantly will not inherit the blessings spoken of in the Bible. They will not "burn in hell", (a platonist teaching borrowed from babylonian tradition). The appostle Paul in his first letter to the congregation in Corinth exhorted them to eject from the congregation one who was having sex with his fathers wife, this to keep the congregation clean and to motivate that one to rethink his course of action that would bring God.s denunciation. Paul later exhorted them to restore that one after he demonstrated repentance. Christians are not apointed as judges of homosexuals or anyone, but they themselves might adversley be judged if they did not lovingly point out that homosexuality is a practice that is condemed and that reconciliation to God is possible to repentant ones by means of Christ Jesus. Biblicly, a Christian is obligated to point out to any who would listen that sexual congress outside of marriage is condemed and that those who practice these things unrepentantly will not inherit the blessings spoken of in the Bible. They will not “burn in hell”, (a platonist teaching borrowed from babylonian tradition). The appostle Paul in his first letter to the congregation in Corinth exhorted them to eject from the congregation one who was having sex with his fathers wife, this to keep the congregation clean and to motivate that one to rethink his course of action that would bring God.s denunciation. Paul later exhorted them to restore that one after he demonstrated repentance. Christians are not apointed as judges of homosexuals or anyone, but they themselves might adversley be judged if they did not lovingly point out that homosexuality is a practice that is condemed and that reconciliation to God is possible to repentant ones by means of Christ Jesus.

]]> By: sins, eh? http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3284 sins, eh? Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:17:58 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3284 Hope you don't wear cotton-polyester blends, cut your hair, or eat bacon. Oh - and that woman shook hands with the other day? She was menstruating. Uh-oh! Come back and let us know if you ever take the lord's name in vain, because then we'll have to stone you to death. We all have to pitch in and follow the word of God. Hope you don't wear cotton-polyester blends, cut your hair, or eat bacon. Oh – and that woman shook hands with the other day? She was menstruating. Uh-oh! Come back and let us know if you ever take the lord's name in vain, because then we'll have to stone you to death. We all have to pitch in and follow the word of God.

]]> By: sins, eh? http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/08/historic-day-for-elca-gay-marriage-clergy-approved/#comment-3028 sins, eh? Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:17:58 +0000 http://blog.mattalgren.com/?p=789#comment-3028 Hope you don't wear cotton-polyester blends, cut your hair, or eat bacon. Oh - and that woman shook hands with the other day? She was menstruating. Uh-oh! Come back and let us know if you ever take the lord's name in vain, because then we'll have to stone you to death. We all have to pitch in and follow the word of God. Hope you don't wear cotton-polyester blends, cut your hair, or eat bacon. Oh – and that woman shook hands with the other day? She was menstruating. Uh-oh! Come back and let us know if you ever take the lord's name in vain, because then we'll have to stone you to death. We all have to pitch in and follow the word of God.

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