Hospital Forces Lesbian to Die Alone; Judge Gives Stamp of Approval

U.S. District Judge Adalberto Jordan dismissed a lawsuit yesterday, essentially finding that the Jackson Memorial Hospital was within its rights to leave a dying woman alone while denying her present and immediate family permission to visit her, be updated on her condition, or even to provide the hospital with medically necessary information.

Named in the now-dismissed suit were Jackson social worker Garnett Frederick and attending physicians Alois Zauner and Carlos Alberto Cruz, who made the decision not to allow Janice Langbehn, Lisa Pond’s partner, to have standard family access to information, even after receiving durable Power of Attorney and a Living Will naming Janice as legal guardian with authority to make end-of-life decisions.

Jennifer Piedra, spokesperson for Jackson Memorial, released this statement after Judge Jordan said they could continue to turn [lesbian and gay] people away from their dying family members:

We have always believed and known that the staff at Jackson treats everyone equally, and that their main concern is the well-being of the patients in their care. At Jackson Health System, we believe in a culture of inclusion. For more than 90 years, the institution has taken great pride in serving everyone who enters its doors, regardless of race, creed, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. We also employ a very diverse workforce, one that mirrors the community we serve.

Jackson will continue to work with the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community to ensure that everyone knows they are welcome at all of our facilities, where they will receive the highest quality of medical care.

Yes, that sounds perfectly reasonable. If only there were a way to judge their words against their actions. Oh wait, there is, and guess what! They’re completely and plainly full of it! In March, Janice told the story of Lisa’s final hours:

On February 18, 2007, Lisa Pond, my partner of nearly 18 years and 3 of our 4 adopted children: Danielle, David and Katie were on board the Rfamily cruise preparing to set sail. Before leaving port, Lisa suddenly collapsed while watching the children play basketball. The kids were banging on the stateroom door saying, “Mommy was hurt!” I opened the door, and took one look at Lisa and knew the situation was very serious. As a medical social worker for many years, I have seen people in critical condition. I knew that my life partner was gravely ill. As the ship was about to leave, we had no choice but to seek medical help in an unfamiliar city. After local medics arrived, we hurried off the ship to the closest hospital in Miami, Ryder Trauma Center at Jackson Memorial Hospital.

As Lisa was put into the ambulance I had no idea when she signed “I love you” to the kids and I it would be the last time I would see her beautiful blue eyes. We arrived at the trauma center minutes before her ambulance. I tried to follow her gurney into the trauma area and was stopped by the trauma team and told to go to the waiting room. The kids and I did as we were told.

We arrived shortly after 3:30 in the afternoon, around 4pm, a social worker came out and introduced himself as Garnett Frederick and said, “you are in an anti-gay city and state. And without a health care proxy you will not see Lisa nor know of her condition”. He then turned to leave; I stopped him and asked for his fax number because I said “we had legal Durable Powers of Attorney” and would get him the documents. Within a short time of meeting this social worker, I contacted friends in Lacey, WA, our hometown, who went to our house and faxed the legal documents required for me to make medical decisions for Lisa.

I never imagined as I paced that tiny waiting room that I would not see Lisa’s bright blue eyes again or hold her warm, loving hands. Feeling helpless as I continued to wait, I attempted to sneak back into the trauma bay but all the doors to the trauma area had key codes, preventing me from entering. Sitting alone with our luggage, our children and my thoughts, I watched numbly as other families were invited back into the trauma center to visit with loved ones. I was still waiting to hear what was happening with Lisa, realizing as the time passed that I was not being allowed to see her and if the social worker’s words were any indication it was because we were gay.

Anger, despair and disbelief wracked my brain as I tried to figure out a way to find out what was going on with Lisa. I finally thought to call our family doctor back in Olympia (on a Sunday afternoon at home) to see if she could find out what was happening. While on the phone with our doctor in Olympia, a surgeon appeared. The surgeon told me that Lisa, who was just 39 years old, had suffered massive bleeding in her brain from an aneurysm.

A short while later, two more surgeons appeared and explained the massive bleed in Lisa’s brain gave her little chance to survive and if she did it would be in a persistent vegetative state. Lisa had made me promise to her over and over in our 18 years together to never allow this to happen to her. I let the surgeons know Lisa wishes, which were also spelled out in her Living Wills and Advance Directive. I was then promised by the doctors that I would be brought to see Lisa as “soon as she was cleaned up”. At that point all life saving measures ceased and I asked that she be prepared for organ donation.

Yet, the children and I continued to wait and wait. A Hospital Chaplain appeared and asked if I wanted to pray and I looked at her dumbfounded as if I hadn’t already been doing that for over four hours. I immediately asked for a Catholic Priest to perform Lisa’s Last rites. A short time later, a Catholic priest escorted me back to recite the Last Rites and it was my first time in nearly 5hrs of seeing Lisa. After seeing her I knew the children needed to see her immediately and be able to say their goodbyes and begin the grieving process. Yet the priest escorted me back out to the waiting room. Where I was faced with the young faces of our beautiful children to explain “other mommy” was going to heaven.

Lisa Marie Pond <br /> 1967 - 2007

Lisa Marie Pond
1967 - 2007

I continued to assert myself over the ensuing hours again that we needed to be with Lisa. I even showed the Admitting clerk the children’s birth certificates with both Lisa and my name on them… and said if you won’t let me back, let her children be with her. I was told they were “too young”. I thought how old do you need to be to say goodbye to your mother?

In nearly eight hours, Lisa lay at Ryder Trauma Center moving toward brain death – completely alone and I continue to this day to feel like a failure for not being there to hold her hand to tell her how much we loved her, to comfort her and to sign in her hand “I love you”. All my pleas fell on deaf ears.

Lisa’s sister arrived driving straight from Jacksonville as soon as I knew Lisa would not survive. She announced who she was and I was at her side staring at the same person who had been denying me access all those hours. It was only then that I was told Lisa had been moved almost an hour earlier to ICU… and the hospital just kept the children and I waiting in the same waiting room, where Lisa was not even at.

On Monday February 19, 2007 at 10:45am, Lisa was officially declared Brain Dead. It was then that individuals from the Organ Donation Agency became involved (who I must point out are completely separate professionals from Jackson Memorial Hospital) that I finally was validated as Lisa’s spouse. They asked me which organs she wanted donated.

The Langbehn-Pond Family

The Langbehn-Pond Family


Explain to me again how a straight couple would have been split like this even for five minutes, let alone hours. Explain to me how three children would have been kept from their straight mother’s side, how a dying straight person would be treated in such an cruel, vicious, I-don’t-have-enough-words way.

Tell me again why the word “marriage” doesn’t matter. Tell me again that we should just be patient and not rock the boat.

Better yet, tell it to Lisa Pond’s partner and children.

Yesterday a judge shrugged his shoulders and left LGBT victims unprotected. When will Americans demand better? Will Americans demand better?

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  • Name
    This is seriously the most disturbing thing I have heard in a long time...it brings tears to my eyes. When are Americans going to realize love is love and gender/sex/color/race have no boundries and we should ALL BE FREE to Love whom we want. My thoughts and prayers are with this family and with all the close minded people that robbed this family of the opportunity to say goodbye...perhaps with enough prayers they will see the light.
  • I wish I could say I understood it, I really do. Hopefully this story will be a bridge to helping people understand that no, 'civil unions' or 'domestic partnerships' or whatever other term they come up with, is not the same as marriage. People universally understand what a spouse is and act accordingly, and new terms require new definitions. As Ms. Pond and Ms. Langbehn found out, we don't have time for people to figure out what it all means.
  • Name
    it would be great if civil unions and domestic partnerships were better defined. however, it is the vagueness of their definition which allows couples to be more financially and bureaucratically independent of one another. the issue boils down to that of marriage. if the couple was allowed to marry, this situation would never have happened. unless they chose to enter into a domestic partnership all along. . .
  • AtheistNavyVet
    The situation was perfectly defined. Birth certificates were in hand and living will was faxed immediately. The social worker was a bigot gate keeper. Families are all about next of kin. This so called hospital was all about letting this bigot keep his job. This Federal Judge is all about Rethuglican hate. Fire the bigot. Impeach the evil judge. Justice is about evidence and compassion, not any unequal law. The Constitution has been about equality since the 14th Amendment passed. Make this family whole by an appeal to redress grief. Even if this couple had a Massachusetts Marriage License in hand, I doubt if the bigot social worker would have acted differently.
  • Mony
    Dear Matt,we are NOT suppouse to jurge anyone: religion,personal preferenses,country,status of any kind WE as human are here on Eart to help and support each other.My hard is hurting for the family loosing a loved one:partner ,mother,sister .....My good vibes are whit the kidis and a single mom racing them I know how hard can be.Sanding my love to all of you good people
    Mony
  • anniemcu
    If you re-read Matt's post, you'll find that what he's saying is that the people who claim that a 'civil union' or a 'domestic partnership' should satisfy all those who want actual marriage, are wrong. That they do not equal the legal standing of marriage. We need to let people who love each other, are willing to dedicate their lives to each other, who share childrearing and all the rest of the plate of marriage, be allowed to *be* married.
  • Name
    And my head is hurting trying to read your post.
  • Name
    Matt, you are so full of it! My partner and I only got married because of legal reasons. It was cheaper for insurance, health care and mainly if one of us died, the other wouldn't have to deal with bull****. We already owned our home jointly, had a bank account with both of our names, and both of our names on our vehicles.

    My mom and the man I consider my dad of 25 of my 32 years, finally got married last year. Why? Because he is retiring and the only way it was feasible was for them to get married BEFORE dad retired or mom would have been screwed...although she has been the "homemaker" for 23 of those 25 years.

    The only weddings I see are big splashy who-are-you-trying-to-outdo ones. The marriages, those are the ones that they never needed a piece of paper stating that they loved this person. Those are the ones that last.

    ~Spouse for legal reasons; loved for ME
  • Waltz
    Did you even read Matt's post?
    BTW, this isn't about you.
  • derrat
    So, those of us that marry (one man - one woman) with out the involvement of your god....what do you consider us?
  • Name
    I dont think these people are "getting" Matt's post...
  • Rob
    "America wasn't established on the freedom of religion, but on the freedom of practicing Christian religion."

    That is bullshit! Almost all of the founding fathers were outspoken in their anti-church views. People came to America to escape religious persecution.

    "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." - John Adams

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. " - Thomas Jefferson

    ""Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Ben Franklin
  • Rob
    oops! put the reply in the wrong place Doh!
  • Name
    to Rob-
    Actually, the Puritans came here not because they were being presecuted, but ridiculed. everyone was having a gay (pardon the reference) old time in Europe and the Puritans were peeved by it. However, everyone was having such a good time no-one was listening to them. They wanted to find space to be extremists. They were granted the money and supplies to go, basically, because no-one minded the uppity neighbor moving out of the neighborhood.
  • pastorchurch
    America and its rules!

    However, America didn't make up the rules, God did!

    Please be polite as I am being sincere. God established the grounds for marriage between a man and a woman and Himself joining the relationship. If you delete any one of those three members of the Marriage bond then it's not marriage. So, what shall we call it?

    America wasn't established on the freedom of religion, but on the freedom of practicing Christian religion. The forefathers didn't establish any form of Christian religion. However, this does mean that it was to be patterned after the Scriptures of God's Holy Word. Jesus being the Savior.

    If people are born in America or want to become citizens of this country they would have to understand their grounding was to be in the Word of God as Christians, but free to practice their worship of Jesus without being told how to do it. However; it had to remain faithful to the Word of God.

    America wasn't just a melting pot of "doing whatever makes you feel right". Therefore, if laws and policies were written regarding 'family rights' or 'marriage rights' they were written based on the founding American forefathers after the Word of God. There was nothing else to pattern the laws after.

    If LG&H's want to fight for equal rights they must not do it under the facade of "Marriage" but something else. Call it what it is, just don't try to change the foundation upon which Marriage was built. One Man - One Woman - One God. Fight for 'faithful partnerships' or 'really good friends rights'. Why claim marriage and deny the way it was outlined/established in God's Holy Word? So stop the insanity - figure out your opponent - and defeat them. Marriage is not the enemy - Marriage has sustained this world for centuries. One man and one woman with God's blessings have populated this planet time and time again. Now that is impossible with same sex partners. You still need men and women, but now you have to call the children born out of marriage bonds something else. They are still paternally related to a woman and a man - regardless of where they have been raised. However; they are not in the nuclear family or dysfunctional family home of One Man - One Woman - and One God.

    Before you comment - reread my comments and read it with sincerity and not malice or anger. I'm not being mean, God has not called me to a ministry of anger but of peaceful living. Let's work together on this, but please don't get angry with me. My heart is honestly seeking the best for these children and this biological/foster mother.













  • Name
    Your beliefs require me to believe in God, which I don't - but I can't say your wrong because I'm the minority in this issue. LG&H's feel the same way. Just because the majority believes a certain way does NOT make it right or just. This country was founded on the beliefs and convictions of the minority and now it turns it's back to it. It's sickening how full of ourselves we've become. Your kind is the worst of it. You should be ashamed to be a human being by using religion as a scapegoat to deny basic human rights and dignities to others.
  • pastorchurch
    Then you're lost. But not without hope. According to Scripture, Jesus died on the cross, was buried, and rose again the third day, according to the Scriptures" "For if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved!" Do this and start living according to His word - you will see clearly then.
  • robertcooper
    "God established the grounds for marriage between a man and a woman and Himself joining the relationship. If you delete any one of those three members of the Marriage bond then it's not marriage. So, what shall we call it?"

    I don't know, what do you call it when a man and a woman are married in a civil ceremony with no religious elements? The law calls it a marriage, the married couple calls it a marriage, would you presume to tell them they're wrong?

    "America wasn't established on the freedom of religion, but on the freedom of practicing Christian religion. The forefathers didn't establish any form of Christian religion. However, this does mean that it was to be patterned after the Scriptures of God's Holy Word. Jesus being the Savior."

    So if you're not a Christian, you're not a 'real' American? What about all the Americans who are Jews? Or Muslim? Or Buddhist? Or pagan? Or atheist?

    "If people are born in America or want to become citizens of this country they would have to understand their grounding was to be in the Word of God as Christians, but free to practice their worship of Jesus without being told how to do it. However; it had to remain faithful to the Word of God."

    So conversion to Christianity is a requirement for US citizenship? That's news to me.

    "Why claim marriage and deny the way it was outlined/established in God's Holy Word?"

    Marriage has been around a lot longer than your religion. Why do you people insist on claiming sole ownership of it?

    "Let's work together on this, but please don't get angry with me. My heart is honestly seeking the best for these children and this biological/foster mother."

    When you insist on treating your fellow human beings as less than yourself, not deserving of the same rights as you enjoy, damn right I'm going to get angry. Stop using your Bible as a shield and own up to your bigotry for what it is.

    And if you honestly want what's best for these children, you'll stop telling them that their family isn't as good as yours, and that their parents don't deserve the same rights as you.
  • Name
    Technically, those rules were made up in by a Roman Politician, not the Bible. Not even the Pope. Not even endorsed by the Pope until the 12th century or so. Sexual contact has never been a cut & dried issue. (There are records of Greek debates about what sexual contact was legal vs moral dating back to Homer.)

    Biblicaly speaking, marriage is a monetary contract. The wife bears the children, the husband pays to raise them, and the dowry to marry the daughter off. It is between a man and as many wives as he can afford.

    It is also a political contract. Kings give their daughter's to powerful neighbors to cement alliances and prevent wars.

    The definition of marriage is today what it has always been. Political.

    The fight should NOT be to make Religion change, it should be to take Religion out of the process. (as far as concerned for taxes and other legal functions.)
  • JAB
    THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE WHO READS!
  • Jesus Loves Gays, Too
    Biblically, the first couple was created together and then separated. It wasn't about the Romans pollution of facts. It happened creation week.

    Personally, I think it is unconstitutional to deny marriage among any members of society. I think it is a mistake for people who think they are defending any religion (because it isn't just Xtians) to fight it and call out the name of God, because it undermines the name of God and the concept of freedom of religion--- which is hugely important to us all if we are to be allowed to follow individual conviction.

    However, like anything else it takes time. The trouble comes in when there is an effort to seek full acceptance in addition to inclusion. These efforts amount to the same levels of indoctrination as occurs in bigoted environments.

    I am appauled by this tale. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens all over the US, to anyone who is deemed 'unfit'.

    People should take the advice of the One who is looking for us all and give up on cruelty, judgement, and double standards. (check out proverbs) This shouldn't happen in a country that was REALLy about free life... not just one concept of religious service.

    And to the pastor, I think it is very interesting that so many who join ranks with him pick the 1 text calling male on male sex an abomination from the Torah and conveniently skip the laws of healthy living-- laws that describe foods that should not be eaten (pork, shellfish, blood and fat) and the sabbath being on saturday, NOT on sunday. If these things are 'nailed to the cross' then so are the various sexual prohibitions. Neither of them are.

    I also think it is interesting that they don't rally against lying, which is also called an abomination.

    I think it is taking the Lord's name in vain, when one uses Him to bash someone He isn't trying to bash.

    Anyway, that's a lot of rambling. You guys, keep looking up. God is not absent.
  • Name
    This was the most horrid crime i have ever had the displeasure of reading. Ihad teers in my eyes reading this story out load to my mother, who feels the same as i do. I hate to sound like a horrible person for writing this, but this is how i feel. I am a person that believes in revenge that hospital has no right to deny visitation to anyone and I hope and pray that every staff member that denied this women the right to see her dieing lover loses a loved one...I know it wont solve anything but that is just how i feel.
  • brianestarke
    Paragraph by paragraph:
    1) The United States is a nation of Laws, not rules.
    2) These laws were made by elected representatives, not any god.
    3) You may be sincere, but you are wrong.I disagree with your premise that a marriage requires exactly one man, one woman, and one god. A marriage is made up of two people who enter into a specific type of contract.
    4) The United States was established by the U.S. Constitution. Part of that Constitution is the amendments to it. The first amendment , among other things, established freedom of religion. That means the right to believe in one, many or no gods, and the right to worship or not worship as one sees fit. This right even protects you, because it gives you the right to be wrong. There is nothing in the Constitution that makes this a christian nation. In fact, the first amendment prohibits this country from having any official religion or faith
    5) I am an American citizen, and I do not have to be a christian, I do not have to worship Jesus, and I do not have to believe that anyone knows the word of any god. I challenge you to prove that what you believe to be the word of god is indeed that, and not a bunch of stories that were collected over some span of time. You can't. Because if you could, what you have would not be faith, it would be knowledge.
    6) America is a melting pot of cultures, religions, skin tones, and much more. The laws of this land are based on English law and English common law, with some exceptions. This is what they are patterned after. The word of god has nothing to do with it, by law.
    7) You've got something right here; marriage is not the enemy, it's the goal. The right to marry, with mutual consent, the person of one's choice. Perhaps the government should get out of the business of recognizing marriage and leave marriage as a religious word. Then, using freedom of religion, people could recognize, or not recognize any relationship they wished as a marriage. All current marriages would be recognized by the government as civil unions. But I don't see that happening. So my government denying any couple the right to marry hurts me, whether I am homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, asexual, or any other possible sexual orientation. And it hurts you. Why? Because when rights are denied based on classification, any classification becomes a valid reason to deny rights. The enemy is bigots who cannot see that letting others marry as they want does not hurt anyone. If it turns out that you are right and God does not want same sex couples to marry, you are still fine, because no one is forcing you to marry someone of your gender. If God does not want same sex couples to marry, then they will not be married in God's eyes. Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed, it doesn't take a marriage to make children, and it doesn't take children to make a marriage. And, scientifically speaking, it actually does not require a man and a woman to make a child. One ovum, and some DNA to fertilize it, possibly from another ovum. Come to think of it, religiously, it doesn't require a man and a woman to make a child. According to that word of god you talk about, Jesus was a virgin birth. No man involved. And do you really believe that children are better in a dysfunctional family than they would be with two loving parents, even if they are of the same gender? Perhaps you need to learn the meaning of dysfunctional. The definition of nuclear family is two parents and their minor children. Unless you really do mean that a nuclear family must be biologically related, in which case adopted children are not part of a nuclear family. For a woman to be paternally related to a male requires that either the male is her father, or they have the same father. For two females to be paternally related requires them to have the same father. So a woman's child should never be be paternally related to her.
    8) You really don't want what is best for anybody. What you want is to be able to feel that you are better than some people. The good news is that even when same sex marriage is legalized everywhere in the United States, you can still feel superior. You just won't have the law to help you. Your post shows much ignorance, bigotry, and lack of education. Which is good, because if you open your mind and learn you will give up your ill-formed ideas. If you think it through, you will realize that to believe in a perfect God requires that you believe that God does not make mistakes. So if God makes a person gay or lesbian, that is not a mistake. For you to give such a person less rights than others is for you to not love part of God's plan. And that is to not love God. So, since I am a God loving man, I will pray for God to open your heart and turn you away from this path of evil. And now I will sign this with my real name, something I noticed you did not do.
    --- Brian E. Starke
  • pastorchurch
    God didn't write the vows for marriage - man did that. However, no matter what you say, God instituted marriage.

    Others believe God wouldn't allow someone to die alone - Jesus did! He was alone. No one wanted to be on the cross with Him. God would rather you die alone but have His Son in your life. All of your words bring suffering and death. You mock God and act as if you know more than Him.


    God will punish us all. Just because I follow Him doesn't matter - Because of your sin - Open and exposed without guilt - He will punish us all. Your children will suffer. Your families will suffer. My prayers don't make this happen - God's Word does. He will bring judgment upon us all. You care more about each other than you do about how God looks upon you. Continue to complain and gripe - a man who doesn't recognize the Lord as Lord will face His wrath.

    You bring this upon us. 1 Cor. 6 - "homosexuals, male prostitutes (Sodomites) . . . shall NOT inherit the kingdom" Go ahead and complain and hate me for these words - however; you don't hate me - you hate God!

    Judge not lest ye be judged - those of you that know not what the word says, 1 Cor. 5 tells us to Judge those inside the church (brothers and sisters in Christ) - those outside the body of Christ (Those who don't believe in Jesus) God will judge. I do not judge you - God does. I pray for you that you would let your hearts be changed. You will face more than you can bear at the hands of God.

    Call me ignorant, shallow minded, cruel - I've been called to a ministry of peace - which can't be accomplished with sin in the world. I do know that the Lord will continue to bring calamity (911 towers to the ground) (Katrina) (Rita) (Soldiers in Iraq being killed) (Many disasters) Just keep ignoring Him. He'll continue bringing this upon us.

    Shame on us all. . .
  • Name
    Brian -

    Thank You well put
  • Jesus loves homosexuals, ppl
    God doesn't punish "Johnny" for what "Jennifer" does. He doesn't do this because God believes in real, loving justice. This means that everything comes into account, including feelings, desires, hopes, intent--- everything we can't see.

    Besides this, trouble comes on the world because of the deterioration of the world based on the continuation of the sinful nature. Hateful people do hateful things = twin towers or this social worker.
    God is out there working to save people, to heal them, to bring them Light and power and Love...

    The command is to 'come out of her' (meaning the destructive system, characterized as babylon). Bad things will happen,,, just as when there is a persistent recession there is an increase in crime and acts of violence. If you want to get away from the problems in a depressed city, you work to improve conditions or you leave the city. You don't tell people God is punishing them.

    If you love your children and give them good things, what do you think He gives to His children? I wish you guys would stop characterizing Him as some kind of furious beast. God is awesomely complex, beautiful and tender... you don't just give up your life for nothing... it takes a lot of passionate love...
  • Katherine H.
    In reply to "pastorchurch"--

    "However, no matter what you say, God instituted marriage."
    No matter what you say, 2+2=247! That's what they told me! So I'm not listening to you, I'm not listening!

    "I've been called to a ministry of peace - which can't be accomplished with sin in the world."
    What kind of god calls people to a ministry that can't be accomplished? Or better yet, what kind of person feels the need to follow a god like that.

    "Call me ignorant, shallow minded, cruel."
    Okay. You are ignorant, shallow-minded, and cruel! And I used to be you. I used to think I had all the answers to every moral question. I used to think "they" were wrong about everything. Now I see "them." And "they" are just people. And I get so angry at myself because I never heard "them." Now I'm one of "them." And every time I hear from one of you and you try to send me to hell because I don't believe you anymore, I think "what goes around comes around." I did it to other people for years and now it's coming back to me. I just hope when it comes back to you, you are able to see it for what it is and not let it crush you.

    Everyone's just doing the best they can.
    Even you, believe it or not.
    It's just too bad your best belittles everyone else's.
  • Name
    Pastorchurch: This woman did not want to die with her loved one, she wanted to be with her and say good bye. So in that vein, Jesus was the only one to die on the cross BUT he did not die without his Father, mother, brother, and friend near him.
    The issues here are, really, that a PERSON was allowed to die without the comfort of loved ones near, children and a 'friend' (whether you agree with the 'friendship' or not) did not get to say good bye.
    God loves us all and is the only one to judge. Do you live without ANY sin?
    Our job as ministers of God is to educate people as to what God wants for us. So educate and let the people decide to follow God. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. But you did your job bringing the horse there, right?
  • Name
    And you're awesome. At last, someone who reads.
  • jeannettelewis
    @Mr. Starke, well said.

    That aside. I find this situation infuriating, I want to know who to call, where to email. Clearly the hospital acted fully within the letter of the law, hence the case is not even heard (please tell me there is an appeal or something) but even in state where the law is clear there is still considerable discretion of the institution to allow access. That this hospital did not do so is REPREHENSIBLE.
  • Alexis
    Sir, I will try not to reply to your comment with malice or anger here. But I simply must respond with both a question, and a comment backed up by several quotations.

    My question is: What do you think should have happened in this situation? Do you think that it was just and fair that this woman was denied seeing her partner on her deathbed? Do you think it was just that the children were denied seeing her?

    My comment is simply that I think it is an incorrect generalization to say that our country was founded on the freedom of practicing Christian religion. The whole idea of freedom of religion in this country is that you should be free to practice your religion--whatever it is--as long as it does not get in the way of other people's basic rights.

    Here are some quotations from our founding fathers to back me up:

    "...the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State" James Madison, Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819

    ""I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." -Benjamin Franklin

    "Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society." George Washington, Letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792

    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes" Thomas Jefferson, Letter to von Humboldt, 1813

    "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
  • Name
    To add to the quotes:
    I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God.
    -(Albert Einstein,The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press)
  • Name
    Atheist heterosexual couples are allowed to be married and have full rights under the law. This makes marriage a civil right an institution by the state,not a religious right. People of other religions that do not believe in your God or Jesus Christ are allowed to be married. Religious is a personal issues keep it in YOUR CHURCH and YOUR HOME. Do Not Tread on my civil rights or interfere with my religious beliefs.

    Regards God_Loves_Me_Too
  • Name
    What part of judge not less you be judged, do you not understand? And The marriage ceremony and/or vows is not even in the Bible.
  • pastorchurch
    Yes, the ceremony is in the Bible as well as the vows! And there are many ceremonies of marriage in the Bible as well as many vows taken.
  • teco
    GOD, GOD ,GOD....you must realize that choosing to believe that there is a God is nothing more than that; a believe, called faith. Imagine for a moment that there is no God. That after all you are wrong , that you choosed to believe a lie, a false......Then what? Would it be ok then to allow a human being to experience humaness, compassion, love towards one another at the time of departure from this human world? How would under any circumstances a true God say ; "no, you cannot be human and show love". I accept people that say "I Am a bigot" much better than one that uses God as an excuse to hide his/her bigotry.
  • mikewilson
    You can hide your willing ignorance and hatred behind your cult called religion, you are doing exactly what the cowards of the taliban do. Gay and Lesbian people have had enough of your bigotry and we won't all allow our rights to be trampled on any longer. How you can justify this? It is a disgraceful show of inhuman and undignified behavior and a clear violation of the constitutional and human rights of this family. God didn't make any rules; just like the story of god they were written by humans and they are wrong.
  • Krystal
    I dont believe this has anything to do with god. If you put all of the legal matters aside...would you want to die alone? Would you want your children whom were legally recognized as your own, to not have a chance to say goodbye to you? You can preach god, and what he intended to be a "legal" marriage. But god would never want one of his children to die alone. And he would never want any of his children to not have the oppertunity to say good bye to their mother. I should have the right to have -whom ever- I want at my side when Im dying. Without considering sexual orientation. I should also be allowed to put anyone Id like in charge of my last wishes. I have the legal right to establish my own power of attorny. No one has the right to ignore my wishes that are spelled out and clearly defined in a legal document. This judge should be ashamed of himself. He allowed the law to be broken, simply because of his own biast!
  • janicelangbehn
    thank you Krystal.. i'm not sure why certain individuals want to make this a religious discussion.. lisa was an amazing christian - but this has NOTHING to do with ours or anyone else religion ... it is about Human rights and dignity which our family was denied
  • DB
    The God I love and worship doesn't want helpless women to die alone because of a couple of petty rednecks try to put words into his mouth.
  • disturbia
    You go!!! (:
  • pastorchurch
    Truly . . .
  • JAB
    First of all, you're using religion like it was a weapon against all those who don't fit into your little society. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EDEN, NO ONE IS PERFECT IN RELIGIONS EYES. Tell me, why is it okay to hate someone based on who they want to marry? You're seriously ignorant. America is supposed to be about religious freedom (or lack of religion). Using religion as an reason to hate on gays is not a valid one. Don't be angry? Seriously? You're basically saying "they weren't really a married couple." Marriage is a MANIFESTATION of love. A physical MANIFESTATION. And when someone says that it isnt valid, you're the one who is lashing out at a fellow human being.How could you deny someone this RIGHT. Go to church, little bigot. Keep your God fueled hatred out of this country. Also, the bible was written by MEN, who can say whatever they want and claim God wanted it this way. Read a couple of history books, get an education. Stop hiding behind lies. Find God in your own way. Really, read a couple of history books. Better yet, look up some major scientific books. Or is evolution a myth like gay marriage? Please. Kill yourself.
  • suzannelehman
    To paraphrase a comment by Barney Frank-on just what planet have you been spending most of your time. Are you for real!
  • DisappointedInSacramento
    Wow. I read all of your comments - and while there may be no 'malice' or 'anger' there is judgement. To say that a couple is not 'equal' because they do not fall under the mantle of a flawed, closed-minded belief system is wrong.
    I don't care if you want to worship a turnip - if it makes you happy, DO SO. But I have never *EVER* understood the concept of a jealous god. Why would a deity be jealous if he/she/it is omnipotent and has a divine plan that we are all following after like puppets anyway?

    the BOTTOM LINE of this story is that a family was DENIED the right to say their goodbyes when one of their own was dying. Because the couple was not a 'standard, in the mold' heterosexual couple.

    Shame on you for trying to use this forum to preach your beliefs. Wha thappened here was wrong, no matter how you slice it.
  • Raena
    Your bible was not written by GOD, it was written by men who owned other men as slaves and made their own interpretation of what your so called "God's" word should be. God is NOT in a church nor is he in a book...he is within the heart of every individual who believes in him. Do not force your MAN MADE words upon others as you so called "christians" have done for so many many years. America was forged in the blood of innocent people, innocent people who were slaughtered like animals in the name of YOUR God. The native american indians were hunted like beasts, the native Hawaiians were nearly erased by the diseases of the first sailors AND CHRISTIANS to touch the shores of Hawaii. You CHRISTIANS brought a horrible and blood soaked end to MANY PEACEFUL PEOPLE around the world. Preach not of your peace great pastor...you should be the one begging forgiveness for the deeds of your kind.
  • pastorchurch
    Raena,

    I will pray for you as-well-as all of you who hate God and twist my words to say what they aren't saying. Satan did that in the garden as well. Marriage was established by God. He made them separate and then brought them together in the garden.

    Marriage was a contract between 1 man 1 woman and God is one of these is not present there is not a marriage.


    Yes I will agree "in the Name of God" many people have tried to have their own personal way, however; I am not under such compulsion. I know God is not pleased with us and whether it is overeating, lying, stealing, cheating, dishonoring parents, murdering, worshiping other God's, setting up idols, coveting, messing with the Sabbath, taking the name of the Lord in vain, or whatever the Word of God states is against His will, it is against His will and He will judge accordingly. I'm not glorifying myself, I fit into some of these places and work at stopping them in my life. God is not just a God of love at all cost. He is a God of order - His order - He put it in motion. 1 man 1 woman and Him. We broke up that order when we began disrespecting His order in our lives. You can't have it your way, I can't have it mine. Everyone has an opinion, but if it doesn't line up with God's priniciples were the ones that are wrong.

    America didn't set the standard! God did!

    People don't set the standard. God did!

    You don't get your say! God does! The only reason you gripe and complain about anything is due to the fact that you are living your lives in arrogance and disrespect of our Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not afraid of God because He is a big meany sitting on a hill with a magnifying glass, I fear Him for He made me. He has complete control of everything around us. My prayer is that He just doesn't lift His hand of protection over us and give us up to our enemies - and yes - He would do that. He won't allow us to have our way at all cost. He will bring us back under His Sovereignty. Repent, all of you
  • pastorchurch, you're simply wrong. I don't know any other way to say it. In
    the United States, we allow two non-Christians to marry. We allow
    mixed-religion couples to marry. We allow atheists to marry. We allow
    divorced people to marry. None of these meet your, and in some cases the
    Bible's, standard.*

    And that's okay, because we don't live in a nation with prescribed religion.
    We each have a right to disagree on what God and Satan are, or even
    *if*they are. Part of that right to disagree is laws that aren't based
    or
    enforced on one religion's say so.


    * On the other hand, we also don't let men have eight wives like King David
    did, or middle aged men have preteen wives like Joseph did. So we don't meet
    the Bible's standard on those either.
  • Name
    America was formed to allow all people to practice their religious beliefs, and to provide them with protection to do so freely. It was also formed to provide equality to all. One man's religion does not rule the country, nor should it prevent others from practicing and believing in equality, good will and respect among all men and women. Let there be equality and the same benefits provided to all people in the US; heterosexual, interracial, gay, lesbian, transgender, etc. relationships should all be allowed to marry if they choose to do so.
  • pastorchurch
    No you're wrong!
  • cowcharge
    Pastorchurch: According to Mark 15, not only wasn't Jesus alone when he died, "two rebels" were crucified with him. There were passersby. There was a centurian. YOU are wrong. Not only in your citing of your own bible, but in your interpretation of the laws of the United States of America. If you insist on using 2000 year-old, medieval, unevolving, man-made mythology as a source of guidance or a debating tool, at least cite it correctly. In the meantime, keep your unprovable source of so-called "authority" out of our schools and out of our laws.

    When you can explain how a "god" can allow a tsunami to kill 300,000 innocent people with something other than a cop-out like "his plan is incomprehensible to us", then I may view religion as something other than an intentional obstacle to people's growth and a means to keep the peasants ignorant and controlled.

    George Burns in "Oh God" and Morgan Freeman in "Bruce Almighty" were more convincing to me (and made a Hell of a lot more sense) than 18 years of churchgoing.
  • Hope
    "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" (John Adams, 1797, Hunter Miller, ed., Treaties and other International Acts, 2:365).

    Did you NOT pay attention to anything while you were in school or did you just miss that part? I'm sorry but I am not a Christan, I am Pagan, and I take offense to you putting yourself in a higher place and looking down on me and my beliefs while I am supposed to respect yours. The very first thing you should do is go to any college and take a few religious history classes and a few American history classes and maybe even further yourself along by taking a few civics classes to further yourself along the ways of learning.

    This is the problem with today's religion and why it's being fought so hard by different groups. And I mean ANY religion. For far to long they've taken liberties they should never have been given the right to take. They've robbed people of their right to think freely and keep an open mind. No one has any right to tell another person how to think, feel or behave when it comes to religion in this country. That's what freedom OF religion means, it was a way for our founding fathers to keep religion out of the government to make it so the government could not be coerced by any church or religious group.

    Also if you are so close minded to think that it's written in the bible that man should not lay with man... blab blah blah... take into consideration the times these things were written and WHO they were written by. While the bible is a lovely book of poetry and moral stories it is still just a book written by corrupt men to further their beliefs as propaganda.

    Just remember sharing your beliefs with such a slant is going to alienate over half the population and take away from what this story is all about. Fair treatment! This family should NEVER have had to go through what they've gone through, and it should be discussed in higher courts than the one it was put before. If a marriage is legally recognized in one state it should be recognized in all states, period. There is no right or wrong with marriage if it is based on love, and surely this couple had more than enough love to give one another to stay together for 18 years. You should be ashamed of yourself for mocking their union and their love for one another all the while toting that you believe in peaceful living and profess love for this couple while you clearly mean otherwise with your comments. How is this helping them or comforting them?
  • pastorchurch
    Are you kidding - you find a quote from the treaty of Tripoli and you think you got it hook line and sinker. Look at all the quotes - School? Is that all you learned child? Read on:

    Amendment I (1791)
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    Christopher Columbus
    "It is hoped that by God's assistance, some of the continents in the Ocean will be discovered....for the Glory of God."

    Mayflower Compact, 1620
    "Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and the advancement of the Christian Faith and honor of our King and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by the presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic..."

    William Penn
    "If we will not be governed by God, we must be governed by tyrants."



    All the original state constitutions explicitly referred to God. (Even today, all 50 still do.) Eleven of the 13 original states included in their constitutions explicitly religious tests for holding office. And some even established official state religions. The reason the Constitution does not refer more explicitly to religion is because religion was not thought to be any business of the limited federal government, but rather the business of state governments. The Establishment Clause was drafted to keep the federal government out of the states' way on the subject of religion. That is why it bans laws "respecting an establishment of religion" it was phrased to prohibit both laws that set up a national church and also laws that might forbid established churches at the state level. Once again, it was certainly not passed to remove religion from public life. In fact, on the same day Congress proposed the First Amendment, it made provisions for hiring its own chaplain a practice that continues to the present.




    The forefathers agreed that no denomination should be elevated by the state above another, and worked on the proper wording to express this. One draft stated "Congress shall make no law establishing any particular denomination of religion in preference to another, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, nor shall the rights of conscience be infringed." In fact, the first amendment was meant to mirror the resolutions of the states, such as Massachusetts and New Hampshire, whose constitutions stated, "And every denomination of Christians . . . shall be equally under the protection of the law; and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law."

    President Andrew Jackson
    "The Bible is the Rock on which this Republic rests."
    Abraham Lincoln
    "It is the duty of nations, as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God and to recognize the sublime truth announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord."



    Grover Cleveland
    "All must admit that the reception of the teachings of Christ results in the purest patriotism, in the most scrupulous fidelity to public trust, and in the best type of citizenship.
    Woodrow Wilson, 1911 Pre-Presidential campaign speech

    "America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Ladies and gentlemen, I have a very simple thing to ask of you. I ask of every man and woman in this audience that from this night on they will realize that part of the destiny of America lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Scripture."

    President Harry S. Truman
    "The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state."



    The national motto, "In God We Trust" still appears on our coins. The phrase "under God" remains in the Pledge of Allegiance. The Congress begins its day with an invocation. The Supreme Court begins its day with the cry "God save this honorable Court." And presidents invariably begin their terms by adding the phrase "so help me God" to the oath required by the Constitution, thus continuing a tradition begun by President George Washington himself. These are not merely antique anomalies. They are expressions of our American tradition that there is a God whose assistance we call upon and who is the author and guarantor of our individual rights.

    Get real! God created the world - He established Christianity and nothing that was made was made without His Word - which is Christ.

    God convict us all.
  • TIREDofSTUPIDTY!!!
    Not to step on any belief systems pastorchurch...but you know who's ruining the "foundation of marriage?"
    These self proclaimed "men of God" who cheat on their wives with other women or sometimes other men.
    Do you really think "God" cares whether or not people get really married or come together in civil unions?
    Because me and my husband didn't include a "god" in our marriage it must be a sham??? How sad that love isn't enough.

    Do you think he's really that bored, he just made a bunch of people so he could chill out and watch us follow "his will" (or whatever you call a convenient list of rules that are suppose to scare people into being good). Wasn't Jesus talking about LOVE all the time? Wasn't he the one taking care of people unconditionally, according to the bible (written, by the way, by men as flawed as you or I.)
    And you all really think that he's sitting wherever and choosing and helping people who have been good or bad? If so, why do bad things happen to good people? Whoops! does he forget sometimes? Or is he just lazy?
    Why has this poor family had to endure such hatred and discrimination? They've brought 4 children into their loving home. Oh I see, because they don't fit this stupid mold created by judgemental and selfish people. I hope someday, those people that belief all this homophobic nonsense have to make a decision or have an experience that opens their eyes to the true meaning of LOVE.
  • pastorchurch
    Many of you intend to believe God is wrong. Jesus died alone. No one died for Him. No one died on His cross. The thiefs died alone. Just because they were there doesn't mean they were there for Jesus, however he was there for them. Mary, John and many others were at the site of the crucifixion but none of them died with Him. Jesus died alone. No one could endure what He did. And He did this for you.

    Bad things happen because God wants His glory revealed in us. If we continue to sin against His will then we will find God seeking His glory to be revealed through and in us. You take a simple interpretation of Scripture and apply it to your whole life . . . live it for a while and allow it to speak to you personally. Stop cookie cutting God for your own life . . . His word says what it says to draw us closer to Him. When Jesus spoke of Love it was not in a pornographic way. Men with other men and women with other women was never a part of the great plan of God.
  • pastorchurch
    I agree with all my heart. Men should not cheat on their wives or vise-versa. Priests give a bad name to us all when they assault an adolescent. But why isn't this okay? Why not priests with little boys? Just how long will it take for this country to finally come to their senses and see that it's okay for adults to have sex with small children. God is Love remember - that's what has been proclaimed by many on this site. Just because you don't like the idea of seeing children assaulted sexually doesn't mean one-day it won't be legalized. It only takes one ignorant person to start proclaiming their self-righteous freedoms have been walked on because they were in an adult-child relationship where both parties loved each other. Homosexuality is not different. It's just on a different level. Why protect the so called rights of children? It's this type of mentality that most people have. I for one am sick of seeing people just behave any way they want - and it makes me sick for Christ says it's wrong. I didn't make this up - God put this in us.

    Homosexuality is a sin just like all other sins, but it is a sin against the flesh - the prepared 'temple' of the Holy Spirit. Denying the Holy Spirit is Blasphemy - unforgiveable - and the only unforgiveable sin. The Holy Spirit has spoken and we need to wake up and pay attention. It's go nothing to do with LOVE in and of ourselves - He loves us and commands us to follow His commands and principles. Just sick!
  • Katherine H.
    "However, no matter what you say, God instituted marriage."
    No matter what you say, 2+2=247! That's what they told me! So I'm not listening to you, I'm not listening!

    "I've been called to a ministry of peace - which can't be accomplished with sin in the world."
    What kind of god calls people to a ministry that can't be accomplished? Or better yet, what kind of person feels the need to follow a god like that.

    "Call me ignorant, shallow minded, cruel."
    Okay. You are ignorant, shallow-minded, and cruel! And I used to be you. I used to think I had all the answers to every moral question. I used to think "they" were wrong about everything. Now I see "them." And "they" are just people. And I get so angry at myself because I never heard "them." Now I'm one of "them." And every time I hear from one of you and you try to send me to hell because I don't believe you anymore, I think "what goes around comes around." I did it to other people for years and now it's coming back to me. I just hope when it comes back to you, you are able to see it for what it is and not let it crush you.

    Everyone's just doing the best they can.
    Even you, believe it or not.
    It's just too bad your best belittles everyone else's.
  • pastorchurch
    Let's see . . . . . . . . .God lets us know we will suffer tribulation and trial when we confess His Son Jesus as Lord ( Jesus - Is - Lord )! So ministry of peace is only accomplished when the Lord settles that peace in the hearts of men. We are to be peace-makers which is hard work. Never finished. Until we step into the Kingdom of Heaven.
  • paulginandes
    Dear Pastorchurch,
    You, like many religious people are conflating religious and civil marriage. They are two different things. If you don't understand the difference, then allow me to explain. You may be able, as a pastor, to perform a marriage in your church, and sign the marriage license so that the state will recognize it. But without that state issued marriage license, any marriage you perform will not be recognized by the state, no matter how married you consider the couple to be within your own church.
    If you still don't understand the difference, then think about those couples who don't get married in church, but instead go before a judge, or a justice of the peace. The state considers them as legally married, just like anybody else, but there was absolutely no religious component to the ceremony.
    In other words, despite your completely mistaken assertion that the country is founded on Christianity, and the laws conform to christian principles, it just isn't so. Have you ever read our federal constitution?
    Here's the part you are ignoring with such aplomb:
    First Amendment:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
    Isn't that completely crystal clear? How can anyone misunderstand it? You can argue all you want about the intentions of the founding fathers. Go for it. But at the end of the day, what is written in black and white in our constitution is what we're required to live by, in the pursuit of a civil, just society. And these founding fathers consciously chose to separate church and state in a very clear, decisive and undeniable way, as anyone can read for themselves.
    If our legal system were based on christianity, or any other religion, for that matter, then why does our constitution not contain one single solitary reference to jesus, god, bible, or any other religious reference?
    You, and your church are completely free to interpret marriage any way you like. You can marry, or not marry anyone you like.
    The story of the Langbehn-Pond family is about civil rights. It's about how our federal and state governments regulate civil rights and access to legal remedy through the marriage laws, not through religious marriage. It's about how, if you have something which doesn't fit the definition of marriage as interpreted by civil law, then you are cut off from any of the benefits, rights and responsibilities which are regulated by marriage law.
    Do you understand? How much clearer example do you need of how separate but equal isn't equal? We have tried this before. Remember segregation? Remember when it wasn't legal for people of different races to marry each other?
    Now you are advocating for segregation based on sexual orientation. It's completely un-christian to do so, in my humble opinion. Even Jesus wasn't the product of the "traditional family". He was adopted or something like that, if the stories are true. If we believe the bible, then Jesus actually had two daddies, and was born through insemination (divine rather than medical, but just as non-standard).
  • pastorchurch
    Since God can do things we can't, I guess that gives license for us to do what we want too? There are things our children shouldn't be doing that only adults do, and likewise adults shouldn't do things that children do. God is above all of this - He does what He knows is best for us - we don't get to help Him in that. We get to be a part of His established plan. Nothing new.
  • Ty Templeton
    I have to assume, "Pastorchurch" that you have not actually read the bible. Most people who use that book to defend the indefensible are fairly ignorant of its actual teachings. The bible, especially, but not exclusively, the old testament, is FILLED with defenses of slavery, murder, prostitution, genocide and cruelty. Consider Abraham, Lot, and others, who offer up their wives and daughters to be raped, specifically to selfishly escape harm coming to themselves (look it up!). Consider Leviticus, which offers up rules of treating your PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE SLAVES! Consider that polygamy and incest are so commonplace throughout the bible, that there's no point in picking specific instances of it.

    To use the bible as a source for truth and morality, is to accept that the Inquisition, the Crusades and the wholesale slaughter of the American Indian were good and decent events, glorifying god.

    The ACTUAL truth is this: No one on this planet, and I mean no one, really follows the way of the bible. Everyone goes through it and ignores the parts that clearly aren't acceptable today, and only looks up the parts that support whatever hateful nonsense they feel in their hearts.

    Read the battle of Jericho, where the Israelites are encouraged to kill children and capture women to be raped. Read the New Testament, where Jesus tells his followers that they cannot love god until they have learned to hate their own mother and father (breaking a commandment, it seems).

    Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that the bible was written by men, not some magic deity, and these men were bronze-age fools, with no more knowledge of the working of the world than the average eight year old would have today.

    It has been conclusively proven that the Earth was not created in a week, less than seven thousand years ago, as biblical believers will tell you. It's also been proven that the Earth goes around the sun, and the heavens are filled with a giant vacuum and other star systems trillions of miles away, and not angels and dead souls. To continue to believe in a document created thousands of years ago by folks with no education or understanding of the world, is to demonstrate delusional gullibility.

    It's the 21st Century. Haven't we put up with these raving god-lovers long enough? Can anyone tell me why they believe in the biblical god, but at the same time, DON'T believe in Zeus, Thor and Wotan? There seems to be as much evidence for Wotan, but if anyone claimed to believe in Wotan, we'd laugh behind their backs and consider them too stupid to talk to as an adult.

    Guess what, christians? You're in the same boat with the stupid Wotan worshipers. Not a lick of difference between you...except I tend to laugh directly at the christians, because well, I can't find anyone dumb enough to worship Thor.

    So, Pastorchurch. Could you do us all a favor and either get an education to the world of reality, or step off a cliff and meet this god you love so much, and spare the world of your existence, thank you.
  • I just have to say, I'm a fan, Mr. Templeton.

    Thanks for commenting.
  • pastorchurch
    Ty,

    There is a tremendous difference in what you comment on. Zeus, Thor or Wotan are believed in. They are held in a certain esteem when we think of thunder and lightning. Who's laughing at that? However; when it comes to the Lord Jesus Christ, He is not a mystical being. Scripture is constantly held as foolish until someone in a bed of dirt digs up something that reflects what the Biblical writers stated years before. Do you then believe that someone in a later century (maybe the 21st) went out and buried something and then went back and dug it up to say "hey everybody look, this was mentioned in the bible?"

    This is like finding the city of Jericho - with its walls broken down and saying - "hey were too stupid to figure this out but didn't we read about this somewhere?" or finding many artifacts to unquestionably prove that the men, kings, queens, of the bible were actually there. When you find something that proves Zeus lives on Olympia then I will believe it. We don't accept Jesus on blind faith - we accept Him on proven results and findings.

    Everyone needs proof. I'm not discrediting that. I don't know what kind of Christians you have encountered in the past or present, but I am not one of those. Zeus hasn't sent a son to die for mankind. Just so you don't get too far to the left - If God can create you - a man - in the beginning, then how old would that man have to of been? infant? cross between a monkey and a man? 15 years old? How old? One day? Could he walk? Was he raised by wolves? We have to realize that elephants don't walk on their knees anymore, horses don't either, frogs still come from tadpoles, humans have a birth tail in the womb, aligators haven't evolved into anything, fish are still fish, birds are birds, they are all created to do and be exactly what they are. They can try to change but they can't. A dog will never be human even if he can open the fridge and pop open a can of coors. He will never be able to pay bills by figuring out how much his bill is first and then drop the envelope stuffed with correct change in the mail. In this way, if God can create man with 'age' why can't he create the earth with age as well. Scientists, meterologists, astronomers alike can never figure out God. He made it that way. If we could we wouldn't need Him. Our thoughts are not Gods, our ways are not Gods - He has confounded the way of the wicked. We seek answers from God - this is why people search the heavens (no there aren't bodies or souls or angels flying around up there) they are in search for truth. God wrote it down in a book for us today. I applaud you for your excellent attempt to discredit the Word of God - you're not the first to try that - I hear in your responses the many others who have gone before you and failed just as you have. You talk a good talk, but that is all it is . . . nothing more than talk . . . no action! You can't believe in a Holy God because you haven't given your life to Him. Don't think you can make the decision to follow Jesus, ask Jesus if you belong to Him and if He says you do - then live according to His Word to the best of your ability. When you see an area of your life that stands in direct contradiction to His Word then pray and fight to get your life right with Him. This will have tremendous effects upon those around you.

    I don't try to say men didn't write the Bible, I believe that every word written is breathed by God and every writer wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit of God involved, it wouldn't have turned out as it did.

    The battle of Jericho didn't involve captureing women to be raped. It involved a battle between good and evil. Man however messes things up when he puts his own ideas into a situation that God said was to be done according to His Word. Same things happen today. God says "Love Me" - and we say "I can love anyone I wish". We say, "God must be homosexual". We say "God is mean and only wants love for Himself". You're right, why not love the creator of Heaven and Earth? He made you and me. So why not let us love (erotically) each other? This is wrong. This breakdown in what God commanded between men and women is not God's choice it is man's - therefore - we are wrong.

    You misquote Scripture well - - - God did not tell us to hate our parents (there was never a command for this) He does say that if a man wishes to follow Him (Jesus) he must then be willing to "leave" his father and mother, brother and sister - Jesus addressed this after returning from the wilderness of temptation - when his mother and brothers and sisters arrived to take him away Jesus stated, "Who are my mother and brothers? He who doe the will of my Father in 'heaven', it is he who is my mother, brother, sister". So you can't say one thing because you think you know enough about a topic and then expect to prove your point using something you yourself said you don't live by because you live around a bunch of failures. "No one can live by the Bible". You were never expected to keep the commandments 100%. God said, "Love Me and Trust My Son Jesus, Live according to His principles" He gave us rules and methods to draw us back to Him.

    We are the sinners, not God. God simply said, "Do this one thing - Love my Son Jesus and Trust Him" and we messes that up. God then gave us a bunch of rules to draw us back to the initial promise. the promise given 430 years before the 10 commandments were given to us. A promise given to Abraham. Even during this time, yes, Lot got it right. He lived in a community known as Sodom (which is now understood to reflect male prostitution) and when God sent His messengers to warn of impending destruction of the city - who showed up? Who showed up to mess things up even more - MEN! Men who wanted to "Know" The Hebrew word 'yada' - which is the same word used in Genesis to inform us of the relationship between Adam and Eve (man and woman) "Adam knew Eve and conceived a son" (Yada). The men of Sodom wanted to 'yada' the messengers - so Lot said, "this is a sin against God, at least take my daughters as to not do this wicked thing" Even Lot got it right when it came to homosexuality. You speak in error and teach falsely.

    If you research a little more and keep your heart open to the Lord He will call you. He will ask for repentance in your life - something we all need to do daily - He will forgive you (without it you cannot inherit eternal life) and you will then begin seeing through accurate understanding of Scripture - How God is who He says He is.
  • Pastorchurch, you've been way off-topic for a while now, and you've taken to writing books in the comments section. Might I suggest that you start a blog of your own? Otherwise, you're kind of hijacking mine, and that's not cool, man.
  • Trixr4kids
    God did not create marriage. Marriage started out as, for lack of a better phrase, a business deal between two families. Sort of a "here you take my daughter and this money and in exchange we get this land" kind of a thing. You have to be licensed by the state, not God, to get married. You don't even have to go through the church ceremony to be married. As soon as you sign that document you're married. You can do that in the local county office and not even take vows. There is no sanctity of marriage argument. Especially when you can go through a Vegas drive-thru and be married by a guy (or girl) dressed like Elvis or a space alien and then, once you've sobered up, get it annulled.

    Marriage has existed since the earliest civilizations, with records of ancient Mesopotamia showing evidence of ceremonies and contracts. The institution likely has endured over the centuries because it fulfilled so many social and personal functions: It offered a structure that determined how property was to be handed down, how labor was to be divided, how children were to be cared for, how companionship would be assured.
    Different cultures in different times have practiced many forms of marriage. The ancient Hebrews, for instance, practiced polygamy — a form of marriage once widespread among cultures worldwide. Until the 19th century, some Native American cultures allowed two men to essentially marry, provided one underwent a ritual that resulted in his being considered a crossed-gender or mixed-gender person.

    It wasn’t until right around the 5th century the church got involved and started imposing rules. It wasn’t even until around the 18th century people actually got married because they loved each other. It is known as the age of enlightenment.

    So before you go around spouting "God started it" why don't you actually crack a book open on the history of marriage.

    Also, just because the majority wants it that way that doesnt mean the majority is right. If it had been up to the "majority" we'd still have slaves, interracial couples would still be illegal, women wouldnt have the right to vote and "colored folks" would still be sitting in the back of the bus.
  • pastorchurch
    Just because people in history of the same sex were married doesn't make it right! 1 man, 1 woman, God. If people in Vegas were married by peter pan - if God was blessing the union between 1 man and 1 woman - then God honors the vows. If they decide tomorrow to divorce - God doesn't approve. The sacredness of marriage is something that being destroyed in the world. 1 man, 1 woman, God. That simple.
  • Timothy
    That's just great that you have your beliefs about "marriage" BUT...I was raised in a Catholic household. Went to Catholic elementary school, Catholic private high school, and even a religious Catholic university. I attended Mass regularly. I studied religion in many different facets. However, I've known from an early age that I am gay. I've tried to change it many times. But God has spoken to me and I believe with all my heart that marriage being strictly meant for a man and a woman is complete crap. It's not about the union between a physical male and female body. It is about the union between TWO SOULS that have finally found each other. And as soon as people stop taking the Bible so literally, the better off this world will be. Keep in mind, the Bible is a TRANSLATION that has been force-fed to the world. I have a strong feeling that in regards to religion and humans, He/She is up there yelling at religious literalists, "THIS IS NOT WHAT I MEANT!" God is all-loving. Why would God want to deny happiness and a marriage to two people who LOVE one another. God is Love, right?? So yes, your post did piss me off, as people like you tend to think you're higher and mightier than all of the 'sinners' around you..yet you would never actually say it. It's not God's word that you're spreading. It's ignorance due to the fact that you have not walked in the shoes of a gay person. But here is my wish for you and people like you: If reincarnation exists (and I know you couldn't possibly think it's at all possible), my wish for you would be to come back as a gay person. Your 'beliefs' would be a little different once you discovered the struggle and heartache.
  • pastorchurch
    You knew from an early age that you wanted something you shouldn't have. Sin is sin and to want it or desire it is wrong. Acting upon it is more wrong unless you are resisting the temptation. Read James. You do not believe God with all of your religious association. No one is force feeding anyone - you can choose to disbelieve the bible that's your right in America. "All Loving" -- Yes, God loves all, but that doesn't TRANSLATE into us being allowed to have sexual relations with whichever male or female we desire.

    If being homosexual/gay as you put it is so right and God meant for us to celebrate our lifestyles (without His approval) why would my "coming back" as a gay person change my beliefs? Why would there be a 'struggle and heartache'? What's the struggle in being gay? Why the heartache? If you know you are living right, you know God approves - why do you care what I or anyone else thinks? If a child told you that you were ugly - would you throw a fit and say, "I wish you were ugly and then you would know how I feel?" So, If God approves of your lifestyle - Well . . . . . leave God out - If you know you are living a right lifestyle - then, why the struggle and heartache? What is so hard? Don't blame it on Christians telling you its wrong, since you believe its not, blame it on . . . . . . . . . . . . .
  • Christianwoman
    Just a quick response: folks, you realize that pastorchurch is living in his own misguided little world, right? Nothing you say is going to change his mind because he believes that his version of Christianity and his version of America is Right and the rest of us are sinners for just disagreeing with him. I am a straight woman and a Biblically-based Christian. He is not factually incorrect in claiming that the Bible states that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman (although it's generally contrasted with one man and several women - i.e., polygamy) and is not accepting of homosexual behavior (as opposed to homosexuality as an orientation). That said, his view that America was somehow established as an entirely Christian nation and that no other intepretation of the separation of church and state can be made is false and is something that right-wing Christians have been direly trying to believe (and have the rest of us believe) of late. Some of the Founding Fathers were even agnostics, so his interpretation is simply wishful thinking.

    None of this justifies the horrific and bigoted treatment this woman and her family received. In a civil society, such discrimination should not exist. It comes down to basic humanity. Even in a religiously-based society (theocracy), you don't need to willfully hurt people to say that you don't agree with their "lifestyle." They were not asking for a marriage ceremony; they were asking for basic decency in the face of the end of life. The fact that this *idiot* (I'm being kind) judge said the hospital was within its rights is appalling and galling.

    Jesus loves everyone, regardless. He is not a jerk. No doubt He was saddened and angered by the treatment this woman received, and by the self-righteousness of pastorchurch, who came on this forum.... why? Not to reach out to anyone to tell them of Christ's love, but to condemn people and tell them that God is OK with them being treated badly.Wrong. Run away from this man's interpretation of who Jesus is. In fact, it would be better not to even read what he wrote... it'll just make you angry, as it did me. A waste of time, a waste of listening to hateful lies dressed up as humble and loving righteousness.
  • pastorchurch
    Christian woman - how can you say what you say, The Scripture says, beware of 'wolves in sheeps clothing' - that my dear is you. This has nothing to do with whether I am wrong or right . . . the Bible states the truth and that is all I have shared. Check with your local pastor and see what He says - unless he teaches from the 'grapes of wrath' or 'dr. seuss'. Christ does love - but His love doesn't allow us to do whatever we desire. Shame on you for trying to belitte the Word of God.

    Check you history: People didn't leave for the new world running away from Buddhism, Muslims or the like. They simply wanted freedom to worship and baptize in their own way. However, God said, "It is not good for man to be alone" = He knows what men do when left to themselves. They make rules that leave God out of the picture - they decide things that are not Holy. But anything that this country stands for came at the hand of our Father in Heaven. His Son. Therefore if the country was established - it was established by Him! The world was created by God; or haven't you read? Therefore, all this belongs to Him. Get angry with God if you must but you can't change it. Leading people astray seems to be what you do best.
  • ICDK
    Pastorchurch:

    So explain to me why love isn't the best answer? Screw your god. He doesn't belong in this. Two people loved each other. They had a family. There were children involved. This was, by all appearances, a stable family. Because the adults are of the same sex makes a difference? I think not. It's people like you and religion in general who cause things like this to happen. Sure, it's a gay issue, but it's built on bigoted creeps like you who believe gays are sinning.

    You're seeking nothing for these people. You want to seek something? Seek the damn truth for once in your narrow-minded life.
  • pastorchurch
    I agree that we should love one another. The greek would even emphasize 'agape umin exthrous' - love your enemies. Yes, the children should have been allowed to see their Mother. No, I don't think or believe gays are sinning - the Bible calls this sin therefore, I believe what the Bible teaches. I would do the same for these people as I would do for anyone else. First, I would have provided a funeral service that was loving and encouraging. Second, I would have kept in touch with the family left behind and let them know we were praying for them. Third, I would have gathered our church around them to take care of any need of the children. Then when appropriate, I would let them get on with their lives. God Bless you.
  • michaelgolojuchjr
    Guess what! We have the Constitution that TRUMPS your religious views. SO keep your god and your religion where they belong and that is in your house and to yourself.

    If you want a religious ruled country I suggest you try Iran. But there you would have to become a muslim or die.

    Remember the old Separation of State and church
  • pastorchurch
    I'll pray for you Michael. That God will help your unbelief. Nothing we have trumps anything from God. He wins!
  • Name
    You're funny.
  • pastorchurch
    Thank you.
  • zarath
    God died ages ago - don't you read Nietzsche?

    I hope that one day your way of thinking becomes extinct.
  • pastorchurch
    Since God created man - God created Nietzsche!
  • pastorchurch
    The gates of Hades shall not prevail . . . Never will it become extinct. Nietzsche however died and is still dead. Jesus is alive and sitting at the right hand of the Father.
  • moira_lirtzman
    The "Word of God" states that Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines, but doesn't seem upset by it. It also asserts that Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister (had the same father), and they were looked on favorably enough by God that they were the progenitors of his Chosen People. Are either of these two examples of marriage as defined by the "Word of God" somehow better or more valid than two women who have loved each other for the great majority of their adult lives and raised 4 children together in a stable relationship? Feh. Ignorant bigot.
  • pastorchurch
    Yes Solomon had many "strange women". The word Marriage is not use here. Read the passage in 1 Kings 11:1-14 and see just how upset God was with Solomon that He brought adversaries against him. It even states in the "Word of God" that this "displeased the Lord greatly". So no this union with many 'wives' was not Holy before God and therefore; was no greater than two women who have loved each other for the great majority of their adult lives and raised 4 children together in a stable relationship. Solomon was wrong just as those who choose 'marry another of the same sex'. Read Matt 19:9.
  • Pastorchurch, I too am a pastor of a church. One serving the GLBT community. You definition of marriage closely resembles the Roman Catholic understanding of the SACRAMENT of marriage which they have every right to define as they wish. However, the word marriage itself and the social institution it represents in not limited to sacramental marriage or even religious marriage as you define it.

    Take the Gospel itself. When Jesus is confronted with the question of divorce, he says "a man who divorces his wife and <marries> another commits adultery." So you have Jesus using the name marriage to describe an adulterous relationship which is clearly not what God intended as the marriage you describe: man + woman + God. Jesus acknowledges that the relationship of two people who are bound together by society's law is called marriage.

    Surely if society agrees to bind two people of the same sex together legally, we can use the societal term of marriage. I am not saying that I believe that God is not part of a same-sex marriage, because I do believe God can be the one who binds a man to a man or a woman to a woman til death do them part.
  • pastorchurch
    Mark 10:6 (NKJV) "But from the beginning of the creation, God `made them male and female.' 7 `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 `and the two shall become one flesh'; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
    9 "Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."


    The term for marriage is not the same term used in the greek here for 'marries another'. Marriage is a Holy Union performed by God. The 'marries another' is Aorist Active Subjunctive - Beginning in the past - decided and acted upon by the individual in the relationship without God - and completely decided on his own. God is not involved in the 'marries another' relationship. His use of the term 'marries another' is not the same as Marriage.

    The term for 'joining together' is proskollathasetai. This is what God referred to in the book of Genesis when He brought the woman to the man and like Jesus referred to here in the New Testament quoting the Old Testament - 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be Joined Together'

    Study your Hebrew and Greek and don't rely upon the translation your using. Marriage was not a social institution: it was a Holy Union performed by God. You
  • pastorchurch
    Type your reply...Matt 19:9 (NKJV) "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery." The last part of this translation is Not included in the greek language. However the terms are not the same. And it was not this way from the beginning, beginning, beginning, beginning, (where it started, came from, originated).
  • Raj
    So if I'm Hindu, and I get married in America, then what? Or would you rather that all of us who don't believe as you do be kicked out of America? Or can we stay, but just be second class citizens to you and your christian brethren, where our marriages aren't accepted by the courts, and our ways are not tolerated. Perhaps we should all wear some sign on out clothes to let you know you are not dealing with one of your own. Would that make you happy?
  • pastorchurch
    My happiness doesn't matter. God is displeased and marriage doesn't exist between 1 man and 1 woman if God is not involved - nothing has been joined together by God. If a Hindu get married in America doesn't matter. America doesn't make someone a Christian. We are ALL second class citizens in America. We didn't make this land nor did we start here. We are all descendents of immigrants. Second class to the Natives. But Marriage is a Holy Union performed by God. Take one of the following away: man, woman, God and put something else in its place, then no marriage.

    Just as Christ wants us all to be at the 'wedding supper of the lamb'. Only those who Trust Jesus as the Way, Truth & Life will be in attendance. If Jesus lives in you - then you would practice God's word as He would. He said, "For this reason, God created them male and female" that a man shall leave his father and mother and be 'joined' to his wife. Has nothing to do with nationality.
  • religionspoilseverything
    Screw your god and your church. If there was a god and there isn't this would not be happening. It makes me sick when cults such as yours uses religion as a prime excuse for ignorance, hatred and fear. Remember pastor dude man created god and you've all created situations like this one.
  • pastorchurch
    I agree that religion spoils everything. Church is not spelled C-U-L-T. God says when you don't like His church then yes, you are sick. So you respond correctly.
  • Here's the thing. I absolutely disagree with just about everything that "pastorchurch" has posted, but I also really disagree with what you posted.

    I also understand that it's the atmosphere of fear and hate generated by people like "pastorchurch" that causes the vitriol that some people have against Christianity. In other words, I disagree with what you're saying, but I understand why you feel that way. Sometimes I feel that way too. I hope that makes sense.

    And with that, I'm closing comments on this post. We're so far afield that it's offensive to the real substance of this post, and I don't think there's anything new to be said.

    Thanks everybody for your comments!
  • AtheistNavyVet
    you could not be more wrong here sir, 1st I understand hate. The social worker is a bigot with institutional powers backed up by an uncaring chaplain and a priest who also did nothing for a dying woman, her children and her spouse. Marriage equality is all that is need be understood. A spouse is a spouse. A family is a family. Parents deserve the right to have children say good bye in death. This hospital should pay millions in actual and punitive damages. The social worker needs to be discharged so he can go to work for Jerry Falwell elsewhere. The Federal Judges must be impeached. The bridge metaphor works only if it is strong enough for LGBTQ people to walk across without bigots spitting in our faces on that bridge.
  • Name
    Matt, after many years of trying and with this terrible news, I will finally give in to the heterosexual community and say....yes ...I HATE YOU !!! How does that feel? Hate must be a family value, because heteros brought us into this world and taught it to us so well......Glad we can finally agree on one thing.
  • VinceD
    The hospitals actions are disgusting. But to assume that a "marriage certificate" would had had any more weight than a power of attorney, a living will, and advanced directives is a bit naive. This was a case where there was no ambiguity about the patients wishes, nor about the legal authority vested in her partner. Obviously this was discrimination, and it's doubtful that any additional paperwork could have prevented it.
  • pastorchurch
    Matt,
    I was reading along with cglennh's responses. He was absolutely right. Everything he said I could verify in the Word of God. At least I checked unlike many others. None of his comments were meant to criticize others. They took it that way due to their own immoral lifestyles. You took away his right to speak on this sight. You are two-faced. You told him to stop speaking the way he was speaking and yet you overlooked every bigoted, sour, hateful, lesbian, homosexual, american that said very very hateful things to him. They don't know who he was. Was it even a man? I believe he was as per his comments. You state in one post to me that "I am wrong". Matt you are wrong. And that is the only way to put it. There is no need to try to say it another way.

    There you go . . . you've got a piece of my post now . . . perhaps you would like to silence those who try to spread the truth. Regardless of sinful people believing the Word of God they will be judged by it. Christians don't hide behind the word of God, they live by it. Yes they make mistakes, but they at least seek forgiveness.

    You have spawned something in this site that is full of hatred and arrogance. It spews from the pit of Hell itself. You don't believe the word of God; cglennh was right! God is a God of love but not according to our understanding of love. I've lost loved ones in my life and praise God for His grace in my life to bring comfort and strength to me during those times of need. You have no idea of what God has done in my personal life.

    I pray for conviction on our lives . . . that the Lord would bring more trouble upon us . . . Lord bring the fire upon us until your people repent and turn back to you. Notice, I include myself in this group. I do not ask for something I'm not willing to go through with the rest of you. Lord, bring down our Nation, bring destruction natural disasters, bring fire upon our homes, destroy our pride, destroy our arrogance, Until we turn back to you as God in Heaven and Earth. Until we turn back to Jesus as Savior of our lives Lord bring the torment upon our families, take our jobs from us, destroy our economy, let us lose our jobs - - - - those who do not follow you, love you, walk according to your Words and commands. When you see the Christians untroubled during this time of torment, but constantly praying for this place to turn to God, don't be shocked. They knew who to turn to all along. If you do not know Christ, turn to Him. My greater plea is that people will turn to God, who cares about what we want personally. God wants us to turn to Him and will do whatever it takes to turn our hearts.

    Lord hear our cry until we repent and follow you faithfully . . . Let this be an honest word, heard by the Lord and answered even today!

    Matt, you take the responsibility of these people into your hands and claim ownership of their suffering, or simply wash your hands of them when calamity begins to overtake your life and your home. God is faithful to listen, "the prayers of the righteous availeth much".
  • Dianne Khan
    I am beyond dumbfounded. What a nasty and evil way to have treated this family - and I can't even begin to say what I think about the judge in the case (well, not without swearing, anyway). Shame on you all. My thoughts are with the family.
  • chrissym
    I will say that i totally 100% agree with your comment. It makes me sick that they treated this poor woman and her family this way.
  • Amber
    As human beings we should all understand the rights to compassion and love. Judging a person in relation to one's self has done nothing but wreck havoc on our world (i.e. slavery, Nazi acts, Genocide -in all forms) is a pure example of how [we] American and other governments make massive illogical reasons for not abiding by the foundation we were all taught in school "do unto other's as you would have them do unto you." I cannot grasp the disgust that OUR nation should feel in disrupting and depriving a family of their last goodbyes. Love is love and simple because it's not 'your' love it doesnt give you the right in any context to take it away with as much as a second thought. Humanity has completely left America and it is showing in ten-fold. I have to say I'm not proud to live in this "great" nation. Many of you should revaluate your ignorance and put yourself in that position, instead of turning a blind eye as so many selfish AMERICANS have on multiple other issues.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    I am an abortion clinic escort. Every Saturday bigots instantly judge all young females as killing "their baby" all grey haired people are "killing their grand child" and all black people are there to be subjected to "black genocide" by these same kind of screaming bigots who run that so called hospital in Miami. I see people driving cars and walking and make no judgment on anyone. They have a right to be free of hate. This family deserves sympathy, not bigotry. I was not stopped from loving my parents on their death beds. If I were in drag, I should expect Miami to keep my family from my bedside? With a million dollar judgment, a fired social worker and an impeached judge, Miami will get it and teach the entire staff to heal families, not promote hate.
  • JAB
    An abortion clinic? You know, I don't like it when people say it's wrong. They kill baby kittens all the time. Same thing. Besides, I had a friend who got an abortion because she was raped. How could she love a baby who was the product of such a atrocious thing? I think this ties in with the religious issue of gay marriage. They need to keep their religion out of everyone's lives but their own.
  • Name
    Comparing kittens to HUMAN babies...are you serious?
  • Brandon
    Thank you, Matt, for getting the Langbehn-Pond family's story out there- I found it on a friend's facebook page and re-posted it myself. The story is powerful and heartbreaking, yet also reminds me that we can't sit idly by. My thoughts go out to the Langbehn-Pond family in this time of great pain.
  • Marc Capehart
    Please appeal this decision.
  • Donna
    I can not believe our world, people are people, no matter what. We all deserve the same respect and treatment no matter what our life choices are or our race, religion or anything else. The people that were responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves, try walking a mile in their shoes, how dare you! A spouse is a spouse, children are children and a human being is a human being. Who are we to judge? There is only one we have to answer to. I have two gay children and I love them unconditionally and so does our family, friends and others! God help anyone that denies them equal rights in a smilar situation, the entire world will hear me speak!
  • RainbowVeins
    Tears are rolling down my cheeks right now. I don't get how people can be so hateful. I am beginning college next year and I want more than anything to be a human rights activist focusing on the LGBT community. This story just pushes me even more to do so. Something needs to be done. Love is love no matter who is involved. We should cherish and encourage love. There isn't enough of it in this world.
  • moniquekuschel
    The only way anything gets changed in the US, is a very big fat lawsuit! I hope this entire family will fight back forcefully. They had all the paperwork legally accepted in the US for such a case and still were treated like second class citizens. Let this go all the way to the Supreme Court, it is the only way anything will ever change. Hoping for change is useless, we will all be dead and buried by then. Fight like hell and change what needs to be changed, in the courts , that is where it will happen.
  • fnbofraud
    I just saw this link on my sons facebook - how sad. I agree with you, love is love regardless of gender, race, education etc. Hopefully, Florida will get on band wagon with Massachusetts and other states and even IOWA. God Bless you Janice and your famly.
  • Robert Cooper
    This is nothing short of an abomination. Hopefully many, many 'ordinary' people will hear about this, and start telling the anti-family bigots who allow things like this to happen every day, who vote in favour of things like this, to pull their heads in and let all kinds of families live in peace.
  • Amy
    I had to read it again. I'm am truly sickened, yet incredibly not surprised. I have heard people have the same sentiment time and again all the while claiming to be the ones who are morally right.... I think we need to educate the masses that religion does not equate morality.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    78 per cent of SC voters made hate the Constitutional policy in 2006. "no benefit of marriage" shall be given to anyone except a "man and a woman" with a marriage license in this bigoted state. Only 6 states have granted marriage equality. Let's fight FL & the other 43.
  • cglennh
    Why must the state be "bigoted?" For a few hundred years people loved to live in the 'states'. How is it that when a person chooses to love someone of the same sex (something that has always been viewed as wrong! Never mind how it is viewed - It is wrong) or when people don't get their own ways that the problem lies in the state? How foolish. disgraceful for the children to be separated from their mother (whichever one may have been the mother) but the Lord's principles are never changing. Same sex friendships have never been looked down upon - but when you take your friends into the marriage bed - the Lord says this is wrong. The only reason to "fight" the other states would be simply to get your way - that is the wrong way. SIN!
  • robertcooper
    "How is it that when a person chooses to love someone of the same sex..."

    When are bigots like you going to get it through your heads that it's NOT A CHOICE?!?!
  • cglennh
    Life is about choices. What is denied as a choice is a choice. God didn't make the mistake, mankind did. Sin is sin and you get the choice to allow God to forgive you. Alcoholics don't have to drink, they choose to. Violence is a choice and yet people are out of control. The message is simple - those who find themselves in sin and like it choose to make their way 'alright' by denying God's plan. I got it through my head that God said it is a sin 1 Cor. 6 and because of that you must give it over to Christ and allow His forgiveness to be more important to you then what anyone else can forgive or accept you for. He is the Way Truth and Life, No man comes to the Father but by me. Your continued disrespect for God will be the end of you. Get that through you head.
  • Name
    Fuck you and your righteous god, he didn't write the bible, men did to keep bitches like you from leaving the house and having free will and being able to speak their mind. The Bible also says that women belong to men, and I think your man should stone your ass for speaking when not spoken to.
  • cglennh
    This is for "NAME" following this post:

    The bible doesn't say that women belong to men. The bible says that women should respect/submit to their husbands. Men are commanded to 'love' their wives . . . COMMANDED . . . women are not. Commanded to love their wives as CHRIST loved the church and gave Himself up for HER. Not stone her. When Jesus had the opportunity to cast a stone at a woman, He showed compassion for her and forgave her . . . she followed Him to His death. He LOVED her. Man COMMANDED to LOVE his WIFE. Not his husband. I can't understand why you would use such language, speak against the righteousness of God, and the Bible. If it accomodates your disbelief to believe God didn't write the Bible that's okay, truly it is, but your disbelief will separate you from the presence of God in your life. If it better suits you to know your stern male philosophy should make a difference to me, understand that I am a man and do not treat women as you have suggested I should. I'M COMMANDED TO LOVE HER AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • disturbia
    End of me? When is the Apocalypse going to happen, you fucking hick? Did Jesus fucking come back in 2000? No.

    Has the anti-fucking-christ come yet? No.

    Do you need a serious reality check?
    Yes.

    God is a mean kid with a magnifying glass.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    The ignorance of religious bigotry is shocking. Old Testament writing is next to impossible to translate in any reliable way, there are no vowels in Hebrew and the oldest writings have no "dots" where the vowels should appear in "tradition." Similarly, Aramaic, the alleged language of "the lard" this writer cites as "his principles" have changed over and over again. Polygamy, incest, rape, the selling of women as property, whether daughters or slaves or concubines or wives and the insanity of celibacy has changed and changed and changed again. In short, Christianity is stupid, a moving target and ranges from pacific kind Quakerism & good works of Catholic Workers to the American Taliban that kills doctors, arms children in WACO, brainwashes believers away from health care for prayer death & Mormonistic rape of children, Catholic priest rape of children and massive coveroups of such crimes against humanity. It is kind to call such believers delusionals. No one should be loyal to homophobic religions and hopeless tiny steps of progress to reform this insane anti-science beast. Justice and marriage equality will continue to be slow coming in the next 44 states. Fight now to expose insane believers who rationalize at best hatred directed at human love.
  • cglennh
    The Lord have mercy on you, you have a tremendous amount of knowledge but that is where you fall short. If the Lord gets a hold of you then you will be an amazing apologist for the Kingdom of God. However, you continue to do the Lord will by being the one leading people astray. Yes the 'dots' as you call them - don't forget the 'yod's' and the 'shewa's' and the other many differing styles of added linguistic helps. The language is understood from the people who speak the language. The closest and oldest manuscripts have been found and bring us to the conclusion (by those who know the language) that the translations we hold are the closest they could possibly be. The error is not God's error it is ours. Matt. 7:21 tells us that 'not everyone, who says Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven'. That doesn't have to be you. Repent of your "high" ways and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ while you may still be found.
  • really?
    Wow. Do you know Osama Bin Laden? He's a religious fanatic too. Actually, hope that the Lord has mercy on YOUR intolerant, ignorant, unenlightened SOUL. I think the bigger sin is thinking you have any power to pass judgement on any other human being. Isn't that power just GODS? You "over think" your chosen religion to fit YOUR ideas like most fanatics. You really presume to know how God sees ALL his children in this world? Take the blinders off and take a look at the diversity in the world and realize the main message in all religions boils down to "LOVE". Shame on you. Shame on them. No one should have to die without their loved ones near them. Oh yea, what about John 3:16
    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." So does this just mean straight people that believe? We are created in Gods image, so are you saying God made a mistake? Something wrong with Adams rib?
    We all are direct descendants correct? We are. We don't choose to be. Some things like narrow mindedness are choices as you well know. Take a look at the whole world sometime before it's too late for you.
  • disturbia
    So God wants me to be stupid because he doesn't want me to realize that half his people are wrong? You and a certain man named WARREN JEFFS seem like best friends. The bible was made by man. They can whatever the hell they want. Isn't that what you said? Men make the choice. Seriously, get over yourself. Brainwashed cretin.
  • disturbia
    I bet you sin all the time. Do you eat a lot? GLUTTONY. Do you touch yourself in the slightest way? LUST. Do you wish that you had something you didn't? ENVY. Please, stop trying to preach what the lord wants. How would you know? Besides the man's bible? Written by man, corrupted by man. I feel bad for someone who is so conservative and ignorant.
  • Jackie
    A couple that was single would have been treated better than this poor couple. I can't believe someone that works at a hospital, would say to a critically ill persons family that they are in an anti-gay state!
    Disgusting ,are we a third world country?Change needs to come and fast we forget that we are Americans!
  • Name
    it's unbelievable that something like this could happen in this day & age. we are supposed to be more advanced but it seems like we have become more barbaric. it's sickening.
  • frankcie
    There should be consequences for ignoring a valid documents which should have assurred this doesn't happen. If possible, Sue them!! Sue them hard!
  • bastette
    They tried to! The *%$@ judge threw it out.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    The perpetrators were enjoined by the lawsuit and the Federal Judge denied justice and promoted more bigotry. Accordingly the issue must be appealed and the judge impeached.
  • Steve
    If this Judge is married and has children, God forbid his wife ever has to go through what Lisa went through. Even more so, I bet he wouldn't allow himself to go through what Janice and the children went through.

    The Judge should be taken from The Bar and never allowed to practice again. He should be branded a disgrace to society. Well, as far as I am concerned he IS a disgrace, not only to society, but to every Human Being, Animal and living thing.

    I tried to keep it polite an use the word disgrace. I can think of a lot stronger things to use for him.

    District Judge Adalberto Jordan and the obstructive, Unreasonable, Thoughtless hospital staff....May you all ROT IN HELL:

    Best wishes for the future Janice. Great looking kids by the way.

    Steve
  • AtheistNavyVet
    Well said Steve. Boy Bush likely appointed this Bush Crime Family Rethuglican to the federal bench. I'm still grief struck by several unjust human stories on this planet right now. People of caring faiths and all facts must come together to stop this deep religious hate evidenced in Miami and anywhere across the globe.
  • cglennh
    Come on people, the judge simply upheld the law written under his jurisdiction. First it's the social worker, then its the chaplain, then its the hospital staff, then its the judge, then its the state, now its the Americas? Get real! We can't have rights just because we think we deserve them. The Bible doesn't teach, "do unto others as you would have them do to you" it teaches "do unto others REGARDLESS of how they do unto you." Now it will be ME who is at fault for this tragedy. So sorry for the children and the partner left behind. There is however a reason for making sure people don't make the rules - the facility in question is simply protecting the patients' rights.
  • robertcooper
    "the facility in question is simply protecting the patients' rights."

    Are you serious, cglennh? Whose rights were being protected by keeping this family apart as one of the parents lay dying? Who benefited from this decision? What good was being served here?
  • Name
    "We can't have rights just because we think we deserve them."
    I believe an entire country was created in opposition to that statement.
  • Erin
    That is simply heartbreaking. And the fact that legal documents were blatently ignored is dispicable.
  • Chris Nowlin
    That's the most disturbing story I've read in some time.
  • Stephen Cuthbertson
    This has to be the most Appauling and Disturbing story of horrible terrorizing personal treatment I have ever read. I work in a hospital and I can assure my hospital would never allow something like this to take place. Yes, hospitals have rules, and the first rule is to treat every person with dignity and respect, where the hell did that happen for this couple. IT DID NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cant even imagine the pain and turmoil that Janice had to endure in the waiting room while behind a wall, her partnet lay dying, ALONE! My God what has become of our country, that we would treat a fellow human being in such a disgusting way, and that the courts would allow if not advocate for such behavior? Janice, you and your lovely kids are in my prayers.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    It is not just the social worker, the chaplain and the priest also did little or nothing as advocates for this family. All of them knew the code to the door lock. Everyone of them, the doctors could have simply said: I'll make sure you can stay with her and see that her children can come in too.
  • cglennh
    Are you serious? You wanted the social worker, chaplain and priest to break from everything they believe in? The posts here would be different then, we would all be saying, "Where is the integrity of the staff of all the hospitals around the world?" If you can't have it your way, just blame everyone else. The 'partner' could have run to the door and fought her way inside if the issue here is about getting back to the family. She could have fought those in the hospital. She could have kicked the door until someone came and let her in. Why blame the staff for standing for the policies set forth by the institution they work for?
  • megan
    right because if she had fought and kicked at the door, she wouldn't have been escorted of by security or arrested. and yes the social worker should have broken what they believe in. they had the legal documents saying they were able to make medical decisions for each other. if the social worker "believed" this was not right is irelevenat their belief is not an issue. It is their job to be a social worker . not to judge
  • cglennh
    Let everyone else break the law while serving the interests of others, just because we get used to having things OUR way. This may be alright in your home, but in the kingdom of heaven, the Lord will not be merciful, he won't care about your desires and wants, He only cares about His will for us and that is to trust Him as Savior and nothing else makes any difference. If Christ lives in you then you will act and behave as Christ would. Life is only as fair as the Lord allows it to be. We don't have a say according to His plan, we either fall under His Lordship or we walk according to our own.
  • megan
    BUT not everyone is christian, and being a country with a serperation of church and state, this should not have happened,

    behave as christ would?? what about how he bathed the feet of slaves, those who were considered beneth all others and not equaly human, or how he befriended mary magdeline a prostitute, everything I have ever heard about jesus shows him as someone with compasion and love for others,

    nothing anyone says will change the way you think, and that is ok, you shouldnt have to change what you think or believe in, but neither should others.
    All I can say is that I am proud to be canadian and live in a country where compassion to fellow men is more easily available.
  • cglennh
    Ridiculous . . . I believe in the compassion of God. The church didn't make the rules for what happened to this family the state did. The Bible doesn't teach that homosexuals don't have hospital visiting benefits the state says, "those who are not family will not be allowed entrance into the patients room" Power of attorney and living wills do not allow visitation rights, they allow someone else to make the FINAL decisions regarding life and death, not being in the room at the moment of death. Living wills and power of attorneys do not make us family. The state made the policy and it has nothing to do with homosexuality . . . but facility policy. No one was standing at the door with the bible quoting scripture to validate the reasons for this woman not being allowed in the room. But the staff of the hospital stood for their policy and procedures. It is still sad, it is still horrible that someone died alone, but it's not God's fault. Canada isn't a country where people show compassion. Canada is quickly turning into a muslim nation and when that religion is forced upon you . . . and it will be FORCED . . . you will either choose to abide by their 'policy' or die. Chrsittianity doesn't seek to kill anyone, Jesus came to seek and to save what was lost and when He returns He will not be seeking anyone, He will be calling His people home. Check your religious stats and do your own figuring on how fast you will see that group take over your beloved home. They either convert you or kill you. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • KoleBear
    My dear, you are an ignorant freak. Not everybody on the planet believes in the crap that you do. This country was founded on freedom of religion, keep yours to yourself, it is tiring reading all of your comments. I hope that in your lifetime you can enjoy what sane people experience.
  • Michelle
    Stories like this make me glad that I live in Massachusetts where same-sex marriage is legal and I am not treated like a second class citizen because of who I am and who I love. What happened to this family is just disgusting. Their attempts to protect themselves by creating legal documentation failed. Even if they came from a state with Civil Unions it wouldn't have mattered. Separate but equal is inherently unequal. I hope that the rest of the country follows the lead of New England and Iowa and legalizes same-sex marriage and acknowledges the importance of all families.
  • Name
    i had similar experiences even in MA. ignorance and the health care system go hand in hand, so does the ongoing minimizing of all of this activity by those in charge. shame on them.
  • MJay
    Be glad you live in MA and have the rights in your home state, but remember that this couple was traveling away from home. We need action on a federal level to truly protect our rights!
  • AtheistNavyVet
    There is a NCAA boycott of many sports events because the rebel flag still flies here in SC. You can bet money and win that social worker has a rebel flag in his FL house. See dozens of them on licence plates in the hospital parking lot. When the LGBTQ community boycotts Disney and the entire state of Florida and more millions of dollars go to tourism in the 6 marriage equality states & those considering marriage equality, our financial muscle will win our civil rights.
  • cglennh
    You may be able to use your 'finances' to change policies and laws, but you will never change the will of God. 1 Corinthians 6 states that homosexuals are wrong, as murderers, adulterers, prostitutes and so on. Change it for now while you can and live in the freedom you desire, but the Lord's judgement comes without mercy. Standing before Him, what will you say, "It's just unfair. We wanted to be gay and do whatever we wanted. You (God) can't stop us from getting into heaven. We'll file a lawsuit?" Whatever. Repent and stop turning Marriage into whatever you wish it to be. It no where says that God made them same sex so they could have a happy family. Male and Female! Enough said.
  • robertcooper
    "Standing before Him, what will you say, "It's just unfair. We wanted to be gay and do whatever we wanted."

    Nobody WANTS to be gay. Who would choose to be gay and have to put up with a lifetime of bigoted, judgemental bullshit (sorry Matt) from ignorant people like you? Kindly take your bigoted, anti-family rhetoric and stick it where the sun don't shine.
  • cglennh
    If it's not a choice then it is a disease. Treatable! Would anyone wish to be a child pornographer, a murderer, male prostitute - is there a choice with these? How is homosexuality (which goes against the will of God - just as the rest of the others) any different. Because you like it? I have a family and I have a family according to the word of God not man. No one gave me my family, I accepted it from the Lord as a blessing. There are things I wish and desire to do better as a father and husband, but I don't have to struggle with the law of God that stands against - as you say "gay" tendencies and practices because I read the Word of the Lord and trust His Word. "The man who sleeps with his brother, condemns himself".
  • RatBastard
    Everybody here has been nice to you, for the most part...
    Well......fuck nice.

    You know.....I'd rather spend an eternity in hell if it meant not being stuck with a self-righteous, stuck-up, bigot like you. You know WHY people aren't going to church much? It's because of ignorant sacks of shit like you. And why the FUCK are you using the word "compassion"? Asslick, you have no CONCEPT of compassion. It's fucktards like you that make me glad I'm not a member of ANY organized religion.

    "God's word! God's word!" the God you worship is a petty, spiteful fuck. You deserve each other.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    Michelle, you just do not get it how deep bigotry is fully worshiped here in the South. Few churches or clergy embrace equality. Most still want to "win" the civil war. Since it is so obvious that hate is illegal towards Blacks, LBGTQ people are the new "niggers" that suffer "open season" just as Atheists are denied equal treatment wantonly by theocrats. As long as government is allowed to establish the religions of hate, peace religions and those of us with no religions are second class citizens. Alleged deities are given free reign by their believers when it suits the Rethuglican and Dixicrat politicians. Them "yankee lesbians" were not even allowed to be Catholics in Miami. We need to take to the streets and carry our signs until we can hold hands in peace.
  • cglennh
    I pray in Jesus Name that the Devil speaking to you be silenced. That you will endure tragedy upon tragedy until your evil and wicked way of thinking and speaking is silenced.

    When this comes to pass, don't blame the Christians - Cry Out to God for salvation and forgiveness for saying the foolish things you say. May the demons in your life tear you apart until You repent and then follow the Lord Jesus Christ
  • megan
    you can hide behind being christian. judge not yet ye be judged? sound familiar..
    no one is asking for special treatment, no one is asking for special rules. people are just asking to be treat the same as others. This is no different then racial equality or womans rights.

    I hope god is more forgiving to you, then you have been
  • cglennh
    Christianity is not a backdrop to do whatever we want. We have to live according to the Promise of God. If you want to come to heaven when you die, then trust my son Jesus. That's what God tells us. And if Jesus lives in us then we do and think as He does. The rules of mankind tell us to treat others the same, but the Word of the Lord teaches, "do unto others regardless of how they do unto you". God is not merciful in His judgement. You do wrong and you get disciplined, you continue to do wrong knowing it is wrong and you get eternally punished. Anyone living for Christ wouldn't do what Christ disapproves of and get away with it. God will always be there watching and correcting. This may be YOUR wake up. Listen to it - God is not pleased. And we wonder, with people refusing to respect the Lord, why our nation is in the state it is in. We must again trust in Christ as Savior and let Him have His way with us.
  • Wow
    When you say "let him have his way with us..." just what do you mean? Are you one of those religious people who use sex to spread the word [and other things]. I'll bet you like those televangelists, that do drugs, have sex with prostitutes and who knows who else, young children? All with the blessing of their lord! Maybe even the people that live in the communes away from the rest of society... they have "their way" with their inmates according to their christian belief too. You are a very strange person. Did God not give us "free will?" Do you know what that is? Try thinking for yourself for a change and not out of a book. You should get therapy for your condition, you really are a sheep you know, probably very low self esteem. I feel sorry for you. I don't know what happened to you as a child that you think LOVE is a dirty word. You shouldn't curse people either...
    remember thou shalt not hate.
  • Sarah Y.
    It's people like you that start religious wars. It's people like you that perpetuate things such as the Holocaust. I don't understand why people like you think you are making a positive contribution to the world by trying to "condemn" others and force them to conform to your beliefs. Ever heard of Matthew Shepard? He was openly gay. In 1998 two men drove him to a remote area and tied him to a fence. They tortured, beat, and pistol-whipped him as he begged for his life, then left him to die in near freezing temperatures. This is what happens when people like you twist the Christian faith into insane, restrictive rules, instead of seeing that it is simply something that is meant to help you lead a better life.
    Oh...and just wondering...are you aware that the Bible also says that if you work on Sunday then you should be killed? Are you also aware that it states that if women do not keep their hair covered at all times when out of the house that thier head shall be shaved, or they can be put to death? If we stuck to the rigid, traditional translation of the Bible, many people and women such as myself would be dead.
  • pastorchurch
    No people like you start the wars. Your disobedience to the word of God. Matt Shephard wasn't killed by the church, he was assaulted by other men who disagreed with his life choice. You said it, he was openly gay, why must it be "openly". Why not just gay? To call him openly gay you yourself agree that his choice was against the principle of one man one woman found in the Bible. The lifestyle of homosexuality is a killer to families. It takes male and female dna to make people.

    Now about what you were wondering about - the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you should be killed for working on the Sabbath, but it does say that the "son of Man was made for the Sabbath and the Sabbath for the son of Man." Pharisees thought like you do. The bible doesn't teach that women should keep their heads covered at all times when out of the house. That didn't come from the Word of God. And NO it doesn't say that in response to the hair of a woman she should be killed. Ignorance of the Word.

    We can't change the rigidness of the bible. It was spoken that way. However, I preach from the hebrew, aramaic, and greek language bibles. Now you can argue all you want against the english translations but you do not know enough to argue against those languages.

    I'm glad to hear you have found a way to live your life that you believe pleases God. If you don't truly live according to His word, then yes you are sinning and need to repent. Stop teaching on a subject you have no idea of, but please keep searching and learning. I don't think you really want to learn though . . . you seem to be soooo smart already. You show that in your ignorance of Scripture. Just search better.
  • sunny
    you've been brainwashed pretty dang good, boy.
  • patinseattle
    your sick.

    wanting someone to "endure tragedy upon tragedy "...."May the demons in your life tear you apart until You repent and then follow the Lord Jesus Christ"

    just like the hateful christians that were called "parents" and others i know. horrible person
  • AMereMortal
    Glenn, You are beyond incorrect and obviously brainwashed with false doctrine. What does 1 John 4:7&8 say? I'll tell you. Take it to heart as truth. "Beloved, let us love one another for LOVE is of God and EVERYONE that LOVES is born of God and KNOWS God. S/he that loveth not KNOWS NOT God for God IS LOVE."
    Get it?
    by the way, if you think sexual orientation is a choice, tell us when you chose to be attracted to one sex over the other.
  • Stephen
    The fact that the documents were ignored is also criminal. I think it's a fairly serious crime for a hospital to ignore a living will.
  • Jeff
    The judge should be recalled, disbarred and pilloried. Absolutely without question one of the grossest transgressions within the legal community by a "judge."

    As for the hospital...I am utterly speechless at the total disregard, the complete ignorance of simple human decency.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    He is not the only bigot judge. There is one in SC who lets terrorists run loose at the abortion clinic and us escorts are gagged into silence so their illegal screams of "murderer" are heard. Religious bigotry is popular from the WDC beltway all the way down I-95 to Miami
  • Wendy Norbom
    This is certainly one of the most horrific stories I have read in such a long time. I am totally in shock that anyone would even treat human beings this way. The laws MUST change. My heartfelt sympathy to Lisa and their children. No one should be left alone during the death process. It simply breaks my heart.
  • Chris
    States that are anti-gay should be boycotted and the reason for not booking told to travel professionals. As the word gets out maybe the economic loss to the state will put a balance against this kind of hatred.
  • concerned
    The hospital staff should realize that most sane people would be happy killing, rather than merely suing, the offending parties.

    My partner just died, barely out of my reach and the hospital staff kept me apart from them? Not much left to lose. And the hospital jackasses would deserve it.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    yes, I would have had the left hand twisted in pain in a circle behind the shoulder blade of the social worker until he wrote down with his right hand the door lock numbers and admitted his bigotry, apologized and promised he would ensure full family respect/access to the dying mother/lover. Only pain can teach a bigot away from his evil ways. Obviously he celebrates his hate with his comrade fascist judge on his side.
  • cglennh
    Ignorant!!!!!!!

    Your name says it all. Atheist! You don't believe in anything. So corruption is at its best in your life. So sad you have no idea where to turn in times of need. Only the Lord can bring you peace and joy. "Twist the arm back"? Yep, that's atheism at its best. Can't get your way because the Lord Jesus Christ said you can't, so we'll just rip people's arms off. There you go.
  • catholicbutnotcruel
    I might share your faith but you are a clear demonstration of ppl taking those parts which fit their own agendas from religion without looking at the underlying sentiments.
    LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR never mind what they look like who they F**K or how their family works as long as it doesn't break any of the other 10 commandments then withstand them.
    the basics for thoses who have forgotten them are:

    1) no other god except jesus christ god and the holy spirit trinity,
    2)thou shall not steal,
    3)thou shall not kill,
    4)thou shall not covert thy neighbours wife,
    5) thou shalt not take the lords name in vain,
    6) thou shall not commit murder,
    7) thou shall not commit adultery,
    8) honour thy mother and thy father,
    9)thou shalt not bear false witness ,
    10) remember sabath and keep it holy

    TO KNOWINGLY KEEP PERSONS APART BECAUSE OF THEIR CHOICES WHEN NONE OF THESE CHOICES CONTRAVENE THE BASICS OF CHRISTIANITY IS TO PROVE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE USING THEIR RELIGION AS AN EXCUSE TO HIDE THEIR BIGOTRY NOT TO BETTER LIFE ON THIS EARTH. THIS CRUELTY ALONE TO FELLOW HUMANS WILL KEEP THEM ALL OUT OF THE HEAVEN THEY THINK THEY SO RIGHTLY DESERVE.
    By not allowing Lisa her written and appropriately documented requests these people have born false witness to this household, they have covetted that which they themselves did not understand and therefore were scared of and out of that fear and loathing their actions came.
    I wish this family only the will to forgive in the true Christian sense that these bigots cannot fathom.
  • cglennh
    With your language or reference to slang - we don't share the same faith. Christ doesn't speak like that. Now - Our faith is based on a promise to Abraham 430 years before the 10 commandments were given to us. The 10 commandments were given to us to draw us back to respecting the Lord Jesus Christ. Heaven help us for not knowing your Word - Lood at Galatians 3 and look at how the Law is designed to turn us back to Christ and trust him according to the promise of God to Abraham. The Law - if that is what you follow and live your life after - will only bring death. People who have faith in Christ believe the promise of God and aren't affected by the law because they aren't breaking it. Christ can't break the Law and if He lives in us we shouldn't break it either.
  • spiritualseeker
    Here is ignorance on display. The Ten Commandments had nothing to do with drawing people back to Christ, they were given many, many years before Jesus was born. That's why they are in the OLD Testament.

    I wonder how it would be if one of your children or grandchildren were to tell you that they were gay. Maybe then you would understand that it is not a choice, not something people do because they "like" it (although why shouldn't people like their lives and their love? There is no shame in liking oneself). But given your attitude, I bet if one of your children were gay, they would hide it from you and cut you out of their life. That is the kind of heartache caused by intolerance and hatred. How can you casually equate being gay with murder and prostitution? Being gay does not hurt anyone, all the hurt is caused by those who fear and judge.
  • cglennh
    Are you serious?

    The Bible clearly teaches that the promise (Trust Jesus and You get to Go to Heaven) of God was given to Abraham 430 years before the 10 commandments were given to Moses. The Promise given was that Jesus would save Abraham and all who confess Him to be Lord. The Law was given in order to draw people to Christ. People lost respect for God and His promise and therefore because of 'trangressions the law was given. The law was never meant to bring life and if life could have been given through the law then there would be no use for the promise, but God gave it to Abraham, through Christ, by promise." 430 years before the big 10. That nugget of truth is found in the NEW TESTAMENT - Galatians 3 - Now that you know - check it for yourself; Just start in verse 1 and read slowly - you'll then see the opposite of ignorance - wisdom. If you choose NOT to check it for yourself then ignorance doesn't even play a part. You spoke before you understood the Scriptures . . . how many other things have you spoken about and actually did more harm to people than good. Remember even those who believe they are being used for good can actually be used to deceive and not even know it. Careful how you handle the Word of Truth. I know this will upset you, but ask for the Lord to keep you humble and you will be. Keep Seeking.
  • cglennh
    This comment is for the 'spiritual seeker'. Are you serious?

    The Bible clearly teaches that the promise (Trust Jesus and You get to Go to Heaven) of God was given to Abraham 430 years before the 10 commandments were given to Moses. The Promise given was that Jesus would save Abraham and all who confess Him to be Lord. The Law was given in order to draw people to Christ. People lost respect for God and His promise and therefore because of 'trangressions the law was given. The law was never meant to bring life and if life could have been given through the law then there would be no use for the promise, but God gave it to Abraham, through Christ, by promise." 430 years before the big 10. That nugget of truth is found in the NEW TESTAMENT - Galatians 3 - Now that you know - check it for yourself; Just start in verse 1 and read slowly - you'll then see the opposite of ignorance - wisdom. If you choose NOT to check it for yourself then ignorance doesn't even play a part. You spoke before you understood the Scriptures . . . how many other things have you spoken about and actually did more harm to people than good. Remember even those who believe they are being used for good can actually be used to deceive and not even know it. Careful how you handle the Word of Truth. I know this will upset you, but ask for the Lord to keep you humble and you will be. Keep Seeking.
  • sunny
    atheism isn't nihilism, you dimwit. at least he or she has morality and compassion - something the theocratic desperately lack in spite of their precious godly "goodwill." it's repulsive how some of you could even pretend to have sympathy, whereas you're more than willing to turn your back on those who don't share the same beliefs.

    the promotion of bigotry is flat-out wrong. you people are so behind the times it's ridiculous. i mean, you're still following an outdated collection of short stories as though it's a way of life. come on. use your brain for once, you god-fearing hatemonger.
  • cglennh
    Your own words condemn you. No one has morality or compassion unless they learned it from the Lord. The Lord is not pleased to hear that those who follow Him and stand on His Word are usually the ones down trodden when it comes to teaching others how to live their lives under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. However, if we don't fight the good fight, the Lord isn't pleased. Your "short story" belief will only condemn you as well. God have mercy on you! The Lord will reveal Himself to you before the sun sets next Sunday. You will know that He is God, Mark my words as truth to you.
  • Jorie
    You have one of the most depressing world views I've ever seen. NO ONE has morality or compassion unless they subscribe to your very narrow religious views? What a ridiculously untrue statement.
  • AMereMortal
    Glenn, Your words condemned you. You said "trust Jesus and you get to go to heaven." That statement reveals you to be a prostitute, selling yourself for a mansion and streets of gold. You are not a lover of God or one who trusts Jesus at all. You trust what you've been told by those who want the political capital that can be had by brainwashing people through religion. Not real religion. Not what Jesus lived. Look within rather than without and if you sincerely seek to know God, you will be guided. As it stands, you have been guided to the wide road of the anti-Christians and are ignorantly crying out for others to join you there.
  • cglennh, as a fellow Christian and as the owner of this site, I'm telling you to step back. You will not insult or demean people here because they believe differently than you do, and you certainly won't do it in the name of God.

    You are welcome to continue the discussion if you can keep a civil tongue.
  • cglennh
    Matt -

    You're telling me to step back? I agree that I will not insult or demean people based on different beliefs. I haven't. I have spoken the truth from the Word of God and as a "fellow Christian" you propogate the enabling of disatisfaction with the Lord. Who's 'name' should I use then? Yours? Mine? Insufficient - what have you done for the world? What life have you sacrificed? "You call me teacher and Lord and you do right, for this is who I am;" "There is no other Name under heaven, given unto man, by which we must be saved". The name of Jesus is all we have. As a fellow Christian you don't get to call the playing field fair - you like myself have to submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ or you stand for nothing. You have a foolish understanding of 'ownership'! You own nothing. Everything in a Christians life belongs to Christ. If He truly lives in you, then He makes the decisions, He decides! If you are the owner, then you choose who gets to say what and who get to post comments. And you reach into the homes of people and bless them or curse them. Give it back to the Lord Jesus and let Him have the ownership rights of your life - your whole life! Even this so-called 'helpful' site. I shall keep a Scriptural tongue above an earthly 'civil' tongue. We have no civil rights under the Lordship of Jesus. Jesus doesn't break the Law. Why would he offer a civil right? He gave us no rights. He lives through us and therefore He doesn't break the law. Show your 'manly' faith without works (in your life, words, testimony) and I'll show you my faith with works. My testimony confesses Christ Jesus as Lord, "the way, truth and the life - no other way to heaven, but by living according to My commands". Jesus cannot be trumped. Stop spreading falseness of all kinds. I stand on the Word of God in all I say, comment and reproduce - I don't make stuff up according to my wants and desires and then find a verse in the Bible that partially supports MY ideas. I look to the Word of God and then simply explain it according to its meaning. Not my meaning. What have I said - in support for the Lord Jesus Christ - against anyone here that is demeaning or insulting. They are insulted and demeaned in and of themselves due to their inability to be obedient to the Life of Jesus. Withstood!
  • Yes, I'm telling you to step back. You may continue to comment if you can
    hold a civil conversation.
  • patinseattle
    and yet you asked for demons to tear this guy apart and for one tragedy after another to fall on him. YOU are the HYPOCRITE you christ soaked nutcase. There is no love in you and your comments show it.
  • AMereMortal
    Um, Glenn. You have no peace and joy. You're running on fear of hell and greed for heaven added to a huge dose of grandiosity due to profound lack of real self-esteem. Your best bet is to tell God to send you to hell if he wants to, but you are choosing to live your life loving other people regardless of the payoff or punishment. God might respect you for that courage and depth of character.
  • TheDevilsBountyHunter
    Damn, you'd be a lot more forgiving than me.
  • This is absolutely unforgivable. How could this ruling have been made under any system that purports to treat everyone equally? And for Jackson Memorial to do this is unbelievable. For anyone else, like me, who believes that they should hear from people who think this behavior is unacceptable, unbelievable, and unforgivable, their Patient Relations can be reached at 305-585-7341.

    It is imperative that those of us who are not gay, and therefore cannot be subjected to this sort of discrimination, stand up and fight for our gay brothers and sisters. This is our fight too. Some people are NOT more equal than others, and we must demand that equality be provided to everyone, all the time, regardless of the color of their skin, their choice (or non) of gods, and whom they love.

    To be forced to die alone because of your choice of partners is obscene. We cannot allow decisions like this to go unchallenged.

    Lamda Legal is currently the attorney of record for this case. They also do a lot of other good legal work for the community. They have until Oct 16 to file further legal action in this case. Perhaps consider donating to them to help their legal fights: http://www.lambdalegal.org/take-action/
  • C
    I wonder if Lisa and Janice had a civil union/domestic partner status? I think this article just refers to them as "partners." Or, if they did, is it the case that Florida doesn't recognize CUs from other states? Just trying to understand the legal reasoning, because they were allowed to see Lisa after her sister arrived: "Ms. Pond’s sister and brother-in-law arrived from Jacksonville at around 11:30 p.m. Ryder personnel recognized them as Ms. Pond’s relatives, informed them of the transfer, and gave them
    Ms. Pond’s new room number. Ms. Langbehn and her children were able to visit with Ms. Pond at
    this time. Significantly, however, the plaintiffs do not allege that they were denied access to, or
    visitation with, Ms. Pond after her transfer and before her death." So I wonder why, if Janice and Lisa were partners legally, Janice would not have been recognized as family. Gonna go research this some more.
  • My impression is that they were not civil unioned or whatever is legal in Washington. I doubt Florida law would have recognized it, though. That's the big problem with the patchwork system that we have now. Having so many different standards leads to confusion from everyone.

    I do know that Janice had Durable Powers of Attorney and a living will for Lisa, and she had birth certificates for all of the children that list both as the kids' parents. As in, all of those things were physically present and still hospital personnel treated Lisa's family like strangers.
  • Beekers
    What good is a Power of Attorney if it isn't upheld regardless of who has it?!?! My mother has a Power of Attorney for my son should anything happen while she is babysitting. No one would dare to say that she could not be at my son's side in a hospital. Why don't people understand that marriage is not diminished because it is open to more people. Rather the idea of marriage is strengthened when it includes all people who love and cherish another, regardless of sex. I am straight and I would be honored to have my gay friends be able to be married. In this world where people are killed every day we need to honor and celebrate love, any love and ALL love!

    I hope the nation cried out loud and strong. This is beyond laws, it is inhuman.
  • cglennh
    The 70's came and went with it's Love one love all complications. It's not about marriage. It is about upholding the policies of the facility. There have been children go missing due to policies being ignored, women being killed due to policies being changed, men set free from prison due to someone overlooking the policy, husbands refused child visitation rights due to someone not following laws and policies.

    If we just drop the rules then we live in chaos. Your mother will be allowed to stand at your sons side - she's family. Just due to paperwork and no "blood" relationship they are not family. You would have to define that differently to get something like this passed. Maybe everyone could have a blood transfusion when they get married to individuals of the same sex, then they would have a partial claim to 'blood' relation over and above 'paper' relation. I'm thankful some people aren't allowed in the Hospital to visit regardless of paperwork - as a minister of the gospel of Jesus - I see what happens when policies aren't followed. It only means something to you when it affects you.
  • LJOntario
    First: I think your interpretation of Christianity is terribly skewed, but I'm not going to discuss it with you as I know there is no reasoning with sheep.

    Second: By your paperwork vs. blood statements, it follows that any parent who has adopted a child is not "family" and should not be allowed rights. On a more amusing note, if paperwork doesn't create family, and only blood relations matter, no husband and wife are "family" either. That's a whole lot of people dying alone.

    Third: I don't think you answered the question that's been put to you at least twice. Setting aside hospital policy, and remembering that we are all human, do you honestly think this woman should have been forced to die alone?
  • Dizzy2476
    It wouldn't have mattered if they had been from Massachusetts and had been married. They would have just flatly told them that they are not in Massachusetts and would have refused her entry just the same. Only once gay marriages are recognized in every state, and from every state, will this kind of discrimination be a thing of the past.
  • Cris R.
    Matt, maybe the problem lies with the personnel in the hospital that did not interpret the situation correctly. Certainly any human being, never mind gay or lesbian, they deserve to be with their closest family, friends or even acquaintances in their last minutes on earth and the same is true of the patients friends, for god sake, what a shame!
    Where is the legal standing for the hospital not to let anyone in to see the patient. The friend brought her into the emergency room. She is still there waiting for any news.It is obvious the person cares for the patient. What or who gives the hospital staff the right to keep her from seeing the patient?
    Sickening!
  • AtheistNavyVet
    it does not matter what WA "legal" means in FL, the so called hospital had a family in attendance and if a concerned father was wanting to see his spouse with their children, no documents would have been demanded or referred to... this is blatant bigotry against a lesbian. Period. Reinstate this lawsuit ASAP and get the money damages to motivate this bigoted institution to rid themselves of so called social workers and pathetic non-advocating clergy
  • AtheistNavyVet
    you seem to be regurgitating the false "findings" of the court, not the situation as suffered by this family...a sibling is not next of kin and the sibling does not execute the living will, this so called hospital is guilty and there is no legal defense for it's criminal staff. One can not pretend all was well at any point in this crisis once the ambulance arrived
  • DJ
    Oh God, Florida, GROW UP!

    I'm so sorry that this has happened to your family.

    To me, this is not a political argument as much as it is inhumane. This is a mirror of the state of humanity people currently exercise (at least in Florida). To not even let the children see their mother, even, that is just downright MEAN.

    I'm an expat right now out in South Korea, and it's interesting to see how the hospitals out here do care. Here they let anyone who loves and cares for you to be at your side all the time, if you want. They even have little cots for visitors to stay overnight in!

    If I were to ever be sick or ill, I would want to be in Korea or Japan, certainly not the USA. I got sick out here and my friends stayed with me 24-7, and the hospital ENCOURAGES it. They know it helps people get well and helps those who are worried and care about the sick and dying - even if you are just a coworker.

    Florida, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    this kind of thing happens when the Bush Crime Family rules and is not jailed, all of them
  • mandy
    My oh my this just distgusts me! I am a nurse and could never even fathom keeping ANYONE from my patient as they were dying, partner, sister, cousing, frien, grandparents, whoever the person is, if that is who the patient needs, thats who they need. What a blatant disrespect for the patient and her family. It makes me sick and saddens my heart this happened to this family. I'm so sorry, my thoughts are with you.
  • Maxine DeSeta
    Years ago my uncle lie brain dead in a New York hospital. Attendents were still taking his heart beat--and keeping him on numerous expensive support devices. My uncle was a millionaire with a male partner of 40 years. Because his partner had no rights I had to make my mother, his sister, sign documents to take him off life support with the direct consent of his partner. Not only would the hospital have kept him on life support at an enormous cost, but his partner of 40 years was completely helpless to do anything.
    "Straight" folks who are together for even 7 years are considered to have a common law marriage. Personal relationships, especially with children, are too fragile to be up for legal interpertation by prejudiced, homophobic states. There has to be federal laws.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    there is no "7 years" dicta in the 13 common law marriage states. When people make a "public declaration" "holding out" to others that they are married, once then their cohabitation is established, one day is sufficient and no time limits exist. It is the intent of the parties only that matters. 37 states grant licenses for sex. Most of those license laws were passed to stop Mormons from polygamy, not stop gays or lesbians from loving one another equally under laws.
  • Name
    All I can think of saying is heartless bastards! I would say I hope someday they don't get to be with who they love when they are dying, but then I wouldn't want that for their spouses.
  • Ghiaccio
    What the hell Florida

    Seriously
  • heidicameron
    I can not stop crying! I wish I could just hug this family...this is so wrong! What can I do, I want to do something. No one deserves to be treated this way. How can people be that cruel??? I want the The Langbehn-Pond Family to know that there are people out there who know this happened to them and that it is not okay, I would like to know that what happened to them can make a difference for future families in a similar situation.
    *still sobbing*
  • Erin
    There are NO words to adequately describe how sickening this is! This institution, and sadly numerous others, would have bent over BACKWARDS had it been a newly-wed, hererosexual couple! Aaaahhh, the "sanctity" of marriage. Im totally ENRAGED by this and literally heartbroken for this family. :(
  • junefreeman
    God created a very pretty lady, Lisa! God granted her three beautiful children! God love the family! God love you! Those people who did crude to you will receive "Karma" someday! I am very sorry and eyes tears front of God, Why to Lisa? All I can say is I love you and the children! Love is very powerful!
  • fergusmccool
    Trying to get a hold of somebody to ask. Beeper numbers seem to be disconnected though, and it's after hours.

    http://www.jhsmiami.org/body.cfm?id=9401
  • unbelief
    What this shows is that in Florida, is there is no appropriate system of redress for what happened. I am gay, left-leaning, and my heart breaks for this incredibly terrible situation.

    I also think the rage against the judge is misplaced, given a dispassionate look at the facts of the case. Given the circumstances presented, it would be difficult to see how he could have made a different decision.

    This must be an incredibly difficult statement to absorb when focusing on the emotional impact of how poorly the hospital treated the family, but a read of the facts against the state statute and common law is fairly clear, he would have had to be incredibly unconventional, stretching the law to appeal to the humanity of the situation against stated code and common law (equitable judgements are hardly ever used if the facts are as clear as this) to arrive at a holding against the hospital, and I believe an appeal won't get the family any closer to a sense of vindication. That sucks. Florida sucks for having an environment that allows this kind of behavior to exist.

    This story will haunt the hospital, they could have done so much more to accommodate this family, and it is a PR nightmare that I believe will cause a lot of pain for the institution, and let's all pray, will force them to match their policies with their practices.
  • Kenn
    There is nothing more I can say about this that has not already been said. That is, nothing more than, "I'm terrified". Humans, no matter what are entitled to their opinion, and I understand why people are frightened and disgusted by [us] homosexuals, I do not understand why people must let their fears and own uncomfortable feelings get the best of them, or use them as excuses to treat others so poorly. Thus, my terror. Being a homosexual male, and a family man, I hope to someday have a family, and for my partner and children I just pray that nothing like this has to occur. Perhaps someday the words of true love and compassion will seep into the hardened hearts of man kind, until then, I fear we, as a species, have to reach a state of sentience.
  • clruby
    Well said, Kenn. I believe it is about fear of what we don't understand. Same reason for the nazis, holocaust, slavery, and segregation. At one time interracial marriage was not allowed, and they didn't have a "vote" on that. So why do we have a vote on gay marriage. It's simply a matter of our separation of church and state. What I believe may not be the same as what you believe and that's ok. That's what makes this America. It has nothing to do with religion or God.
  • Aislinn_Brennan
    This brought tears to my eyes, it sickens and saddens me beyond words that the State of Florida would have the gall to treat any person with such inhuman, malignant, disrespectful cruelty. They disregarded federal law in failing to recognize legal birth certificates, Durable Power of Attorney, and a legal Living Will. This is sick, it is wrong, and it is ILLEGAL, and yet the judge callously disregards the law, throwing his personal views in the face of legal and moral precedent. This is a crime, it is a sin, and it is completely and utterly unforgivable. I myself am Bisexual, and have numerous friends and loved ones who are Bisexual, Homosexual, or Transgendered, and to think that some of my friends and loved ones, or even possibly myself, would be treated in this manner makes me so angry I cannot even see straight. I pray with all my heart that justice is served in this case, and the criminal and amoral actions of this hospital are punished to the fullest extent of the law.
  • UZ
    The fucked up part is that the women were practicing the religion of the people who did this to them in the first place.
  • Wrenn
    @ UZ... Read carefully, and do your research instead of spouting off personal bias.

    Jackson Memorial Hospital is part of the University of Miami, and THEREFORE, must be non-sectarian. The only mention of religion was in that she asked the catholic priest attending to do last rites. Most hospitals have lists of ministers and such of various denominations and religions on call to be brought in when patients and family ask.

    This whole story is sickening enough in truth, but to be adding false ideas to it lessens it. That a NON-SECTARIAN hospital, presumably staffed by people with a variety of beliefs lock stepped in this way, makes it so startling.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    UZ is correct. The University of Miami status has nothing to do with the fact that loyalty to the Vatican and Catholicism kills. HIV is spread because the Vatican has veto powers over the World Health Organization and others who could be distributing condoms, preventing std's and unwanted pregnancies. Pedophile priests remain at large instead of defrocked and jailed for their rapes & molestations DUE TO VATICAN COVERUPS OF EVIDENCE. The Vatican continues to promote celibacy and "sin" of homosexuality. Though I applaud a few individual priests and nuns for many peace and justice efforts and Catholic Workers generally, UZ is correct that this couple is betrayed by priestcraft and should not have been loyal to an unknown diocese.
  • robertcooper
    You know you don't have to reply to every comment on the thread, don't you?
  • AtheistNavyVet
    yes Catholics have blood on their hands and no self respecting couple should expect most priests to be anything but uncaring operatives of the evil Vatican Corporations that cause HIV infections and deny condoms to over a billion people
  • PTH
    Illness is illness, and as such has no regard to race, religion, or sexual persuasion. Is it not about time that we started to feel and think the same way in regards to treatment, compassion and the support that is required when a loved one becomes ill, whether terminal or otherwise. This article has made me realize a few things about humanity one of those is that we still see "alternative" life choices as an easy way to put up the potential barrier for forward movement, who in anybodies name god or otherwise has the power to stop family members being there for one another in a time of need such as this, sadly one of my other thoughts is how do I separate myself from the human race?. This is an absolutely disgusting way to perform. Ok so am I an American? No, am I religious? No, am I gay? Again a respectful no, however I am Human and have suffered loss, that alone should give me reason to add my 2 cents worth. My thoughts go out to those left behind, and if anybody involved (from the hospital or courtroom) are to read this remember on thing you cannot take it back, or make it any easier this terrible thing you have done is done. And a final good luck to all those on the march!
  • AtheistNavyVet
    yes I hope there are a million marchers today in WDC & in countless thousands of cities for gender justice....I'm too old and tired to be with my sisters and brothers in love, but I am not silent
  • robertcooper
    "...but I am not silent."

    Yes, we've noticed.
  • BilliMayfield
    I am absolutely speechless and heartbroken for the The Langbehn-Pond Family. I hope you are well in mind, as you still walk a very uncomfortable path. Please know that you are not alone.

    As the partner of an openly gay surgeon in Ohio, I cannot believe that vicious law would allow such heinous decisions to continously be made.

    Unity and Equality should be now, and it is long overdue. May we please come together as one voice, and fight for justice. What a tragic loss this family had to and has to endure. I pray for your comfort and a society that not only your children and our fellow man can be heard, supported and recognized.
  • Fran Wolfe Johnson
    I live in the state of Florida, near Jacksonville. I'm sad to say that this is the standard of care, in my experience, that all hospitals in the state give. My husband and I were married in a civil service out in Colorado. Colorado allows the parties to marry themselves in front of a civil clerk without a religious witness. When I was hospitalized, one of the first things they did was to separate us. It was hours before I saw him and then only because he'd managed to sneak past them. The argument was that it wasn't a legitimate marriage and therefore he had no right to see me.

    We had POA (in fact, he's only of the designated decision makers; a family friend and a girlfriend are the other). They refused to honor it. I was, at that time, completely unable to make decisions and they wouldn't honor any of his. I ended up with a biopsy I didn't need because of this.

    Florida apparently has some very rigid standards as to what qualifies as marriage and what does not. We're married in the eyes of the law, but not apparently in the eyes of the state of Florida and it cost me dearly in terms of health.

    What happened here just magnifies the tragedy of voting for something you don't understand. Voters were told that if they sanctioned the amendment defining marriage, more than just the GLBT community would be caught in the cross fire but they ignored it.

    Now families like hers and mine get to pay the price.

    I can't believe that a judge didn't see the complete and utter injustice in this.

    It doesn't matter whether they had a civil union or not. Birth certificates and POA are legal documents and what is on them should have been proof enough.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    The renegade State of Florida deposed President Tilden and President Gore. The votes are not counted in FL. Accordingly, Hayes was "selected" by an illegal House Committee, not a roll call of states as the Constitution provides. The Federal Courts illegally let the Bush Crime Family install boy Bush into the White House. It took federal troops to protect schools students in the south from bigotry. If we had a few of us sailors in dress whites to guard emergency rooms and escort families through locked doors in the University of Miami renegade hospitals, this family would not have suffered
  • JPugh248
    This is what I found on the Jackson Memorial web site. How can these stories be so different? How scary is it that this can happen. I have always been afraid of what would happen if either me or my partner were sick... So far in my life I have had very good experiences. That being said, it only takes one person to really mess things up!

    Jackson News

    Court Dismisses Lawsuit Against Jackson Memorial

    On September 29, the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida dismissed the lawsuit brought by Janice Langbehn against Jackson Memorial Hospital. This case involved a woman from Washington state who claimed she was kept from seeing her same-sex partner while her partner was being treated for a brain aneurysm at the Ryder Trauma Center in February 2007. We have always believed and known that the staff at Jackson treats everyone equally, and that their only concern is the well-being of the patients in their care.

    At Jackson Health System, we believe in a culture of inclusion. For more than 90 years, the institution has taken great pride in serving everyone who enters its doors, regardless of race, creed, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. We also employ a very diverse workforce, one that mirrors the community we serve.

    Jackson Memorial Hospital does not restrict visitation on account of a person’s sexual orientation. In fact, the hospital grants visitation to all individuals equally, regardless of their relationship to the patient – as long as doing so does not interfere with the care being given to the patient or other patients in the area. A friend or colleague is viewed no differently than a partner, spouse, or parent for purposes of visitation. Jackson will continue to work with the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community to ensure that everyone knows they are welcome at all of our facilities, where they will receive the highest quality of medical care.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    lies, lies and more lies.... The social worker still has his bigoted job. Until the perpetrator is fired, Ryder Trauma Center remains a homophobic bastion.
  • dknyc
    It is time for each and every person to make it a point to openly ostracize anyone who makes ignorant comments with an anti-gay or racist or sexist tone. That is the only way that we will change our country. All of us know someone who comes out of their mouth with some ignorant comments, and because they're friends or we work with them or they're bullies at school or for whatever reason, a lot of us just shake our heads and avoid confrontation. We need to confront them and call them out openly in public for spouting nonsense. Make it uncomfortable to be anti-gay, or racist, or sexist. And not only in the Northeast or in liberal areas, but in the churches of the South, and at the PTA meetings in the Midwest, or at the county fairs in Oklahoma and Texas, everywhere that someone makes a remark that's offensive or borderline discriminatory, people need to step up and confront them until it is more uncomfortable to be a bigot than it is to be a sex offender.
  • mberke
    Perhaps it might be time to think of marriage in two parts (as they actually are) - the civil and the religious. As most other nations do, you register your union at city hall and then, if you so choose, you have a religious ceremony at the house of worship of your choice.

    Strange how a country that prides itself on individual rights and separation of church and state has chosen (and defends) this commingling of the two in the most personal and lifelong action any couple can make.

    Just my $0.02 worth
  • AtheistNavyVet
    there is only one fact of marriage, and that is love. There are many objects of marriage, those include family, inheritance, children, domiciles and custom. This family of two women and 3 children were violated by a renegade institution run by a renegade State of Florida. The perpetrators remain at large. None have been brought to justice. If I were a social worker there and I had injected my personal views on Catholicism onto this family, all who helped get me immediately relieved of my duties would have been hailed as anti-Atheist heroic personnel. Instead pro-religious hate social worker still has his job of denying lesbian rights.
  • This is one of the saddest & most unforgivable offenses I have ever heard of before. It's not just a question of marriage, civil unions, same-sex marriages or heterosexual marriages. Its about civil rights, and the right to common decency.

    I'm heterosexual and have been married for 16 years, and I have never understood this whole debate over marriage. Let everyone marry regardless of orientation, gender, race, etc. and let's all move on as a country.

    Now, if you'll excuse me-I'm going to go get frikkin sick now. :(

    ~Seti
  • Name
    Heartbreaking...outrageous. I linked to this story on my Facebook and asked all my friends to pass it along to others.

    I'd love to see thousands of DPOA copies from partners and friends flood the Jackson Memorial Hospital mailroom.
  • Name
    Though I feel sympathy for the family and the troubles they went through and agree that the staff went a bit over board in "following" the rules, there are a few things I am surprised most of you seem not to realize here. In most of the southern states they DO NOT recognize same sex marriages ,union, or the like of any form and anything another state decides to accept is their right but in those states anyone not related to people by blood or a recognized marriage has no rights to anything legal dealing with their chosen partner.This includes P.o.A. living wills custody of children or even benefits due to retirement,disability,or military. You have to think also that you are talking about Republican,bible thumping, anti-intelligent people running these states All it takes is for the Hospital to go to court stating they hold policies that do not allow Non-blood relatives or legal spouses to have access or be notified of each step and they have covered the liability. This may change in time and as great as I think it would be for it to change sooner rather than later I do not see society in the large ready for this large of a step this also includes same sex unions/marriages. If I as a heterosexual am allowed to be happy/sad/miserable with someone in the eyes of the legal system then gays and lesbians deserve that ability and right as well.
    As a side note I am baffled the Priest was willing to provide the last rights, thats the one person I would have expected to deny her.
  • robertcooper
    "I do not see society in the large ready for this large of a step..."

    Then to hell with society in the large.

    'Society in the large' wasn't ready to abolish slavery, or grant women the vote, or allow black people to sit up the front of the bus. These things had to be fought for, *against* the wishes of 'society in the large'.

    No minority group has ever received equal treatment simply by sitting back and waiting for 'society in the large' to grant it. If it was up to 'society in the large', a black wife still wouldn't be allowed to visit her white husband in some states in the US. It's the 21st century now, as I keep having to remind people. Gay people shouldn't still be stuck up the back of the bus, eyes demurely downcast, waiting and hoping for 'society in the large' to invite them to sit up the front with the 'normal' people.

    None of us are equal until we all are.

    One final point; how can you come on here and defend a hospital's decision to deny a parent the RIGHT to see her own children, and for those children to see that parent?
  • Boxer
    I think the Hospital Chaplain and the Catholic Priest should be fired and condemed for not stand up to bigoty and hatred. How Crueland Evil can Religious Men be to stand by and do nothing while a woman dies. Did they laugh as she lay dying? Then prayed when it was to late? I have survived 25 years of AIDS, blindness and now undectectable for HIV. The religious men and women told me "I deserved to die" 25 years ago. I out-lived them all. GOD Bless and May St. Michael watch over you!!!! AMEN Aronic Priest Boxer
  • Appalled_in_Phoenix
    Wow, I can't believe this happened in this day and age. Does anyone know if this is a case the ACLU would be willing to take? Are the security tapes from that day in that area still available? Maybe a new case can be opened to get this family some justice and teach Jackson Memorial a lesson. Very sad and unbelievable all at the same time.
  • Anonymous
    WOW this does not surprise me at all when it comes to Jackson...my 51yr old Mother walked in a healthy and active Woman and NEVER WALKED OUT!!! Due to an incompetent Cardiac Surgeon and Staff!!! Please keep in mind that...my Mother was a very active 51 year old woman, she rode Bike for 15 miles every day for the past 8 years, she would also go running every now and again when she wasn’t biking. She also went to the University of Tae Kwon Do for 3 years, she was a very healthy eater, never smoked cigarettes, and only socially drank. My Mom went in for a Cardiac Cauterization on June 8th 2009 at 8am within an hour after the process began the Surgeon Dr spoke with her Sister in Law and said that he would have to perform Emergency Open Heart Surgery on my Mother or she would die within 24 hours if he didn’t. During the Cauterization my Mother mentioned in her own words that she almost Died. She then mentioned it again to her Sister in Law when she was brought outside to the LSCU at the Jackson Memorial Hospital. Her Sister in Law then called Me(Daughter of the Patient) and told her that she needed to rush to the LSCU because they were going to perform this very critical surgery on her Mother. The OR Team waited long enough for Me and my Little Brother to get there in order for us to see her before heading up to surgery.My Mother's surgery commenced at 12:20pm and while We the Family were waiting in the Main Lobby area at around 1:30pm we notice the Head Anesthesiologist who introduced herself earlier before my Mother was taken into surgery as the Anesthesiologist who would be in charge during her surgery was seen walking into the Jackson Cafeteria for lunch We were told her "emergency" open heart surgery would take approximately 3 hours, guess what? 3 hours go by no info on my Mom, 4, 5, 6, 7 & finally 8 hours go by with no info on my Mother. Until I finally get pissed off and demanded to know where her Mother was and it is when I was told that my Mother was still in Surgery after 8 hours, Dr. So & So finally comes out to speak with Me and comments that my Mom was a very sick Woman that she had been sick for years that they had to replace the Valve 2 times and that because of this she is now in very critical condition and might not even survive the night when the family was finally allowed to see my Mother, I was the first one to go in and see her what she saw was just horrifying and unbelievable. My Mother went into this surgery looking like she has always looked young and full of life, but once she came out of this surgery she was a vegetable, swollen and deformed beyond recognition, it was as if they had switched persons. June 8th went by and until June 14th we were always told that she was “stable” yet they never seemed to take her off of the Heavy Sedatives and Medications they had her on. They proceeded to put her on a dialysis machine, but they continued to tell us that she was “stable”, that is all the Dr. would tell the Immediate Family. I would try to communicate with the nursing staff in certain things she saw out of place or just did not seem right to her, but the nurses with the exception of 2 of the night nurses were very uncooperative and cold. when I arrive that day to the SICU I notices that her right foot was turning Black, when she asks the nurse in charge that day, the nurse says that it is because that is where the Balloon Pump was removed from her right leg. As the day progresses and before leaving for the night Ingrid starts to notice that her Mother is starting to look Yellowish, again she asks the nurse and she responded with “that is because of all the medications we are giving her”. This was the response for everything Ingrid would notice and ask about. Sunday the 14th came around and I get to the hospital and when I walk to my Mother’s Bed I notices that my Mother’s left hand was also starting to get black, also from a few days back I had noticed that my Mother’s left hand was very cold but her forearm was warm. Again when asking the nurse, her response was that it was due to the Medications they had given her due to some blood clots she had from all the Transfusions she had received throughout the week. I then ask the nurse if she was aware that my Mother was at risk of acquiring Gangrene, and the nurse merely said that it was a risk they would have to take in order to have her alive. So I say, you mean to tell me you are going to cut her Hand and Leg off? Nurse replied with a “yes”. At that moment the Dialysis machine starts to beep when Ingrid turns around she notices that on the Dialysis Machine it reads “Air in the Blood” and tells the nurse about it, the nurse comes over to my Mother and tries to fix the catheter in her neck and restart the machine but is unsuccessful…she repeats this step for about 2 minutes, when another nurse tells her to just turn off the machine and restart it. The nurse does as she is told, within seconds of her doing this I notice my Mother’s heartbeat starts to drop dramatically and I let the nurse know, at this point I was told that the patient is unstable and I need to leave until the patient is stabilized. 20 minutes go by when I am called and meet with the Dr. and I was told that my Mother is not going to survive. I rush back into the SICU and see when my Mother was going into Cardiac Arrest and the Staff is performing CPR on her but with no luck 10 minutes later the Dr. announces that my Mother had passed away at 6:11pm. Jackson asked us if we wished to have an autopsy performed, to which we agreed too…but the next day I called the Morgue at Jackson and said that I did not want Jackson to perform the Autopsy. The Family then began to search for a Private Autopsy in which we were successful and are now in a legal pursuit, that is why the names have been keep out of this.

    Well this is my story and this is not the first horror story I have heard coming from Jackson, this has got to finally stop...just because people don't have the money to pay for private insurance it should not be a reason for them to be treated like animals or worse than animals. I wish this Family all the Peace in the World and that they can move on and live the life their loved one would have wanted them too. My prayers are with you and I know for a fact that Lisa is watching her Children and You!!!
  • AtheistNavyVet
    you are correct that Jackson, UM & Ryder has blood on it's hands and is covering up, not solving the problem
  • Yes the surgeon is also from UM Hospital. Oh but 1 way or another they will pay for all the damage they have caused and not just my family, but every other family out there!!!

    Thank you for ur response ANV.
  • KSB
    not much different in Texas....never will be. sad.
  • Billy Spellman
    My heart goes out to Lisa's partner and their children for having had to endure this.... My REBUKE goes out to the Judge in that case, and i HOPE, someone will be so kind as to "remind" him that judges will be judged by their "judgments". The ENTIRE hospital staff are also REBUKED by me, for letting something this awful happen. Having read this story and the other replies, i feel compelled to add here that from my experiences pets have even been allowed in, to say their good-byes to the dying. In other words, Lisa, her other half, and their children were treated by the hospital staff "as" worst than a dog.

    Matt, many have been lead astray by false teachings and seem to forget jesus' NUMBER ONE command. That being to "love". Other scripture add that "love" is never unkind or disrespectful.

    My heart also goes out to those that made this sad thing happen, and i will pray for them also. My prayer "being" that their hearts can change.... To that "judge", i add that i know for a fact that judges will be judged by their judgments, and i would not want to be in that judge's shoes when he gets his.

    Forgive me for not being able to explain how so much "false teachings" have been allowed to exist and RULE people's lives.. Not to mention all the pain and unnecessary suffering these false teachings have lead to.

    ONE THING i will say about those that have such hate in their hearts, is that from my experience, they are hard to reason with, and have to IGNORE some of the scriptures they "claim" they cling to, to justify their hate. Number One "being" 1Timothy 4:1-5 that warns us to not let anyone tell us who we may or may not marry. NUMBER TWO, is they also have to ignore the scripture that talks of the final day about who will be taken and who will be left behind. (Luke 17:34)..(btw.. gay not being a deciding factor)

    As sad is it might be, i have to laugh at those "so called christians" that spew out their hate and THEN have to use all KINDS OF FLAWED "logic" to continue to justify their hate.

    How many FAIL to "understand" that the bible was written for all mankind of all TIMES? God had a time when he wanted the world populated. As gays do not populate they had at "one time" a cross to bear of not being allowed to live the life they wanted to live...(BTW.. Look around... THE World is full now)

    What about the "other shoe" logic... What if straights were living in a gay world where they had to endure the prejudice and suffering that i have had to see gays suffer in my "life time"?

    Now i will find the "Submit" (Post as Guest), button to ADD my two cents worth and pray that minds and hearts can be opened from the post i have made here... May god help us all, as the above story clearly SHOWS just how much help "We, THE People" need.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    Now that I've read all the posts and replied to many and like most, I must say that LAMDA lawyers must appeal this case by Oct 16th apparently, so I'm guessing the jerk judge handed down the decision September 17th? There can be no excuse for this decision. He would not have taken the word of a white perpetrator if the victims were African American. Lesbians must have full civil rights protection under law. Women must not be defined as breeders or sex objects but as free equal persons with all rights to marry, inherit, next of kin visitation and parental rights, whether vaginal or adoptive. All religious assumptions about people are false. The Iowa marital equality decision was based on the categorical reasoning that anti-gay religions may not be preferred over gay friendly religions who do have marriage ceremonies for same sex couples. Iowa must be secular. Secularity is neutrality in action. Neither favoring gay religions nor homophobic religions. Marriage equality is just that, all persons free to choose who they marry. A marriage license is merely a public declaration and holding out to all that love is the legitimate object at hand. Iowa is a common law state. One does not need a marriage license to be married. The license is a legal convenience to marital partners so that no "proof" need be established in common law. Common law was a territorial tradition to save couples a long trip to county or state capitals for a license merely for a wedding ceremony to be official.
  • Name
    I just feel for the kids - what kind of child has an "other mommy" -- ??
    Good luck to their sanity. It's not all about "love", that only gets you so far. They will be chastised as they grow up, and it's both "mommies' faults for that. A child needs a father (male) and a mother (female). PERIOD!
  • megan
    because that has always happened all the time in the past. these children where adopted so for one their "mother" and :"father" already chose the were not able to raise them well enough themselves. How many single family households are their with fully functional children. now how many with a mom and dad that are beaten, unloved, neglected, raped, killed? if a child is loved and cared for wha difference does i make
  • AtheistNavyVet
    children need communities free of bigots like you who advocate insane controls over families
  • robertcooper
    Name (if indeed that is your real name!) -

    Until recently, these children had two parents who loved them and provided a stable, caring home for them to grow up in. That's more than a lot of other kids get. "What kind" of children have two mommies? Children just like yours and mine. Are you saying there's something wrong with these children just because both of their parents happen to be the same sex? Cripes. If other kids pick on them for having two mommies, it's because they've been taught to do so by bigots like you.

    Many children are growing up in homes with two parents of the same sex, and they're doing just fine. They'd be doing even better if anti-family bigots like you stopped discriminating against them, trying to tear their families apart, and just left them alone to get on with it.

    Families come in all shapes and sizes, and they don't need your approval. Pull your head out of your butt and get over it.

    "A child needs a father (male) and a mother (female). PERIOD!"

    So what do you propose to do to ensure that happens? Ban divorce? Make it compulsory for a parent who is widowed to re-marry within...hmm, we should at least have an appropriate mourning period...let's say, twelve months? And of course, if a woman does find herself single and pregnant, she should latch onto the first available man who comes along. Yeah, there's a recipe for a healthy family right there. I trust you'll getting in touch with your local Congressperson to ensure that this happens.

    Do at least try to think things through next time, won't you dear?
  • This is terrible, but not unheard of. I've read of another lesbian couple, who had to battle and fight when the one spouse was giving birth, the other was denied entrance. She had to battle the hospitals with lawyers over the entire situation.

    Things like this happen all over the states, not just Florida (though Florida is known for it's hate on Gays, which aren't allowed to adopt either).

    I hope and I hope that this will change. But for now, it's just the one thing that makes me glad I live in Canada, where we are all equal, a law passed by our PM.
  • AtheistNavyVet
    Florida remains a renegade state. One FL city police officer married to a woman for many years, both women's name on the title deed of their home, was killed in the line of duty. This Nazi City Council & local courts denied the survivors pension to the woman & their children and the home was stolen by the cousin or so called "next of kin" in court proceedings. So much for any mirage of justice in the same renegade state that stole the White House from President Gore. The Bush Crime Family relies upon religious violence and bigoted religious hate voters for their hold on power.
  • chiefohchief
    i am sick to my stomach
  • robertcooper
    "If it's not a choice then it is a disease. Treatable! Would anyone wish to be a child pornographer, a murderer, male prostitute - is there a choice with these? How is homosexuality (which goes against the will of God - just as the rest of the others) any different. Because you like it?"

    How dare you compare being homosexual - something which harms NO PERSON - to being any of the things you compared it to? A disease? Treatable? Science (yes, I realise that's probably a dirty word to you) says you are WRONG. I'm beginning to find your ignorance, along with your lack of basic human decency, offensive.

    If you're finding a conflict between your religious beliefs, cglennh, and treating your fellow human beings with decency, respect, and as equals, perhaps it's time for you to re-think your religious beliefs. They seem to be standing in the way of you being a decent human being.

    Oh, and for the record, I'm not gay. I'm simply sick and tired of seeing my fellow human beings treated as less than they are by bigots such as yourself. And to hide your bigotry behind the Bible, especially on a forum such as this one, is no less than blasphemy.

    Now go and splash some cold water on your face and wake up to yourself, sir.
  • mikhill
    It is an absolute tragedy that a family has been treated in this manner. What I find even more disturbing is the religious superiority and intolerance of some of the comments. The hypocrisy and ignorance spewed forth from some people's mouths is unbelievable. What gives any one of us the audacity to believe that we have the one and only path to salvation?!? The moral superiority that cglennh thinks he has because of his belief in one particular religion and then using those beliefs to justify his his assertion that this family somehow deserved to be treated as they were because they don't fit his definition of a "family" is truly frightening. Does cglennh not understand that religious intolerance has been the primary cause of war and genocide throughout history? Does he also believe that the murder of millions based solely on religion is also justified? Without dignity, respect, and compassion for others we are nothing as human beings.
  • disgusted4ever
    This kind of story is what keeps me separated from God. I consider myself Christian, but do not attend church because I cannot stand to breathe the same air with people who would vote to disallow same sex unions.

    Continue to vote against same sex unions with the notion that your disgusting behavior as Blind Christians keeps people like me an arms length from God. It is YOUR fault. I love God and Jesus for everything that he purports to be...I want to be like him, not you...you who would separate the love of a family and carve tragedy upon the earth. -signed, the daughter of a Baptist Minister in Tampa Florida
  • WOW very well said!!! VERY VERY WELL SAID!!!
  • cglennh
    You do not attend church because you refuse to submit completely to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. "A person who calls themselves a believer and hates his brother makes God out to be a liar". Your not a believer so stop hiding behind your father's ministry.
  • And now we're done.
  • Hey, thanks everybody for the comments on this post. It's an important issue and I'm glad you've taken the time. A few notes, as I've been absent due to time constraints:

    1. While I do disagree with those who use religion to bash LGBT people (figuratively or physically), I really think it's beside the point. Let's pull it back to questions of civil law.
    2. Janice Langbehn and Lisa Pond had every bit of legal protection possible. Lisa's Living Will, her Durable Power of Attorney, and her children's birth certificates were explicitly ignored for HOURS by hospital staff. The same hospital staff gave immediate information and access to Lisa's sister with no paperwork to show familial or legal relationship. To me, this is the heart of the issue.
    3. Please read the comments tips linked to at the top of the comments section. Here's another link for your convenience.
    4. "Name" is what Disqus displays when a commenter doesn't fill in her/his name. They're working on it.
    5. But while we're talking about it, how about signing up for a Disqus account? It's free, it's fast, and it makes the discussion a little more personal. If not a Disqus account, you can log in with your facebook, twitter, yahoo, or even your openID account.
  • andi
    This story was about a family who has suffered not a religious battle!!! It seems like everytime i read an article about a gay,lesbian or trans person there are always ppl arguing and throwing in their religion. I know everyone has their own opioin(sorry cant spell) but damn just once can we have a discussion about what the article was about and not about god. God is supposed to love everyone and forgives ppl but u ppl make that hard to believe. Stop trying to push ur beliefs on others and focus on whats really going on
  • pastorchurch
    A power of attorney only gives a person certain rights - like handling someone else's personal affairs. In the absence of the person. The living will cancels out the power of attorney for it explicitly states the care and/or treatment a person desires regarding life saving and rescucitation measures, the birth certificates do not give anyone the benefit of going through a facility at their leisure. Sad to say, She (the same-sex 'spouse') should have said "I'm family, she's my sister". Either way, it would be dishonest both on the part of the staff and the lady involved to say she was family. In these situations, family is not defined on paper, it is defined by paternal (blood) rationale. Some 'step' parents aren't even allowed in Hospital ICU/operating recovery rooms. This is just policy. Nobody was absolutely wronged, but sad that someone had to die without someone from the family. The staff of the hospital was probably standing nearby. If life saving measures were called for in lieu of the living will, then this cancels any family visitation. No one, regardless of who they were (male or female, brother or sister, daughter or son, husband or wife) would be allowed in the area. They would be in the way for staff to work. The reasons are not expressed here thus far. Sorry for the loss.
  • Adam
    I find it shocking and utterly disheartening that a story of basic human dignity denied would be met by such hostile statements from certain members of the religious community, who are likely trolling these sites and blogs to spread the 'word' of hatred. It is a shame that such ignorant and malicious individuals would exist in what is supposed to be a relatively educated nation. They'll talk all day about how wonderful Jesus' love is, but throw in the Old Testament edge to suit their underlying hostility. If any of these events and reactions provoked me to believe in a god, I would certainly pray for the family of the deceased, but I would also pray for the end of this deeply ingrained and vicious hatred so prevalent in our society. Peace be with the family
  • rebecca scott
    Matt, all of us except the glenn guy are extremely upset and would like to do something about this inhumane treatment. Could you put a list together of different ways that we can help? Like maybe phone numbers of places or something?

    By the way, Glenn, being gay is not a choice, just ask anyone who is.

    Also, Jesus would have wanted Lisa's loved ones to be with Lisa.

    And I'm just curious, if your interpretation of God is that he believes in intolerant things, like sending people to hell and excluding people who are different, why do you want to believe in him and practice what you know is harmful to others? What would you think if someone told you, for example, that "there's a god, and in his book he says food is immoral, and if you eat food and don't repent you'll burn alive some day." What would you make of that? And how does that differ from the way you're following your interpretation of the book you call the bible?

    Do you put yourself "in other people's shoes" at all? Or do you just live blindly?

    I feel bad for your kids because they must feel enormous guilt and repression when they experience anything that doesn't fit perfectly into your very closed interpretation of God. I hope you are understanding with them and try to understand them when they are different than you, because no two people are identical. It has been shown that a large percentage of children and teenages who committ suicide come from very religious families.
  • markus smith
    i have a hypothetical solution! lisa's partner could have had a SEX CHANGE! that's it, that way she's be like an official man, nothing chubby on her chest you know, and then she and the kids would have been able to see their loved one before she died!

    how painful and expensive is a sex change?

    this could be a great solution for gay couples, one has a sex change and then they won't have to deal with hatred anymore... right?
  • kim o'connor
    To Lisa's Family: if you are reading this, be strong and think positive; nearly the whole world is on your side and wishing you all well. Most likely when your children are older they won't have to deal with this kind of hatred. And this event has sparked a lot of energy and solidarity, the news is getting out and people are getting active. I, for one, have decided to get out of my chair and become active in the fight for humane rights for ALL types of families.

    To Matt: thank you so much for sharing this news with us.
  • BamBam6
    Ok, I haven't read all the comments, but I see a thread and I think it is misplaced. This event is more than an series of bigoted individuals expressing themselves at the expense of an innocent family. This is a hate crime. It may not have been spectacular and bloody, but it is a hate crime nonetheless. Perhaps a "civil hate crime" might be the right description. There are two effective responses to the kind of institutionalized hate shown here. One is direct political action: marches, boycotts, arrests and, if possible, a martyr or two to generate some sympathy in the general public. That will work eventually. The second way is what worked in South Africa: direct financial action. Jackson Health is a public company. I suggest that the community get together and organize a divestment campaign against Jackson Health and every other company that each and every one of their officers and directors are involved in. There are some very wealthy people and organizations on our side and a significant drop in stock price will hit these people where they live. Any company that puts out the kind of pinkwash prevarication like Jackson Health deserves to go down in flames.
  • blkbeauty
    R U serious PLEASE remind me to never ever go to this hospital or I pray I don't get sick in the area I don't care what your sexual oriantation may be if this woman was dieing how can a hospital be so evil as to not let her see her partner that shes been with for 18 yrs (longer that some hetro marriages) prisioners are allowed a last meal but a lesiban aint allowed to see her partner ought to be ashamed
  • jtdrift
    I am a Christian and I do not believe in allowing GLBT marriage in the religious meaning. but to deny anyone the comfort and warmth of anybody you care for by your side in your final moments is without a doubt INHUMAN!!!! this is a disgusting slap in the face of general humanity! and it is garbage like the ones who denied such a basic right to this poor family that makes people like me who disagrees with your beliefs look bad. I work at for Northside hospital in Atlanta I hope such a bigot-inspired corruption will never, ever, happen here! my thoughts and prayers go to Langbehn-Pond family and may they find justice, support, and love for their loss.
  • roccart
    PASTORCHURCH.... your belief system is flawed. Religious dogma or not.... its WRONG! What would Jesus do? The bible is STILL being disputed...! Do you honestly think that Jesus would have turned his back on this situation and not allowed her partner and children to say goodbye to her. Leave the book outside, and enter in the kingdom of REALITY!!!
  • Marlin May
    You've forgotten to include the name of the "judge" and the name and address of the hospital.
  • The names of both the judge and the hospital are in the first line of the post. The name of the hospital is repeated throughout.
  • bsaunders
    I support gay marriage, and I also am not so confident that it will solve this situation. My guess is that a straight (unmarried) couple that showed up and presented themselves as married with no paperwork would not be questioned in the first place. If this social worker could ignore the power-of-attorney papers, I'm not so sure that he would not find a reason to delay and harass gay and lesbian people regardless of legal marriage.
  • Name
    This is so messed up!! I hope and pray the partner will sue the hospital so bad she'll OWN it! Prayers to her and the children.
  • dad
    It was a frivolous law suit.
    Was the Hospital out of line. Of Course! But it didn't cause the young ladies death. An aneurysm did.
  • The suit does not claim that the hospital caused Lisa Pond's death.

    Please read before you comment. Thanks!
  • Name
    Pay attention! Why did so many of you idiots comment angrily about Matt's post, which is simply complaining that giving people civil unions is not enough? Don't you clowns read posts before you respond to them with so much hatred?
  • Stories like this make my blood boil. Yes, what straight couple or parent would have been treated with such disrespect. It sounds like the south in the 40s, the way African Americans were treated. And these are the same people who want to deny marriage rights to the LGBT community. It is why I march, why I fight, why I speak up and out and will continue to do so until all of us are treated equally under the law - as our constitution promises. My heart aches Lisa's partner and children and I pray the social worker and judge in this case never have to experience what they put them through. How can they be so cold, so heartless. It is beyond my understanding.

    Susan Berland
    www.susan-berland.com
  • Hanna
    I am a nurse & am appalled at this. Putting all the legal issues aside, it is an ignorant institution that allows a person to die alone. There are many cases where volunteers or friends spend time with critically ill/dying patients, no legality involved. This has nothing to do with god, this is about being humane. This is an embarrassing reflection of the state of mind in this country. Such an incredibly sad state of affairs. :(
  • Name
    I am a Muslim and it makes me so mad when people bring God/Allah into a discussion. Allah teaches us to use our brains, for he gave them to us. He also teaches us tolerance. It is not our place to judge people here on this earth. We should be kind to everyone and respect the laws of the land (in this case, i mean power of attorney and birth certificates).
  • Compassionate_Bill
    I think we should deluge the Florida Governor, the U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives from Florida, other Florida state officials, the hospital, and Florida-base media outlets to express our outrage over this disgrace!
  • Cosigned, but remember that this decision was from a federal court in the 11th Circuit, not state court.
  • robertcooper
    Pastorchurch, could you kindly go and preach your superstitious fire-and-brimstone bullshit somewhere else please? For somebody who claims to be all about peace, you sure seem to take delight in the idea of all of us suffering for your God.

    And you know what? If your God is going to punish people for loving each other, and deny children the right to see a dying parent, then yes, I do hate your God. You and your God can go to hell.
  • y.h.
    Mr. Pastor should be ashamed of yourself for even getting involved in such an issue. Does it bother you that much you had to write about your belief to everyone? Whether anyone believes in God or not, it's their own freedom to do so. You can pray for gays to find their ways or whatever it is you may want to do, but you should be ashamed for your writing. Keep it in your church and to yourself. This is not a religious issue, but a civil rights issue. I am not stupid. I understand everything about Church and God. The last thing I need is for you to tell me what's right and what's wrong. That's for any individual self should discover on their own. Seriously, just keep it to yourself. You are not needed here. Your Church needs you now more.
  • Nell in Modesto
    that is why I support the 2010 Protection of Marriage Act in California prohibiting straight couples to get a divorce. Since "marriage" is sacred, then divorce is a "sin" therefore it should be illegal. "Death do us part" is the oath you took, if your spouse is still alive, then you cannot divorce. This proposed law is gaining traction in Calif by the very groups that denied gay marriage. I think it is an appropriate law and it does not go far enough. In my opinion, if you ever got a divorce, that should be 'illegal' and you should be forced to go back with your original husband or wife.
  • Name
    Simple answer to this specific issue: stop going to Florida and Miami since they are an "anti-gay" state and city. If LBGT-supportive tourists boycotted the entire state, I'll bet the locals find some Christian tolerance pretty quickly since tourism dollars are vital in the economy.
  • tourismgirl
    The unfortunate consequence of this situation is that the patient appears to be the very last person of consideration. This isn't just a gay rights issue. It's a patient's rights issue. Clearly, obviously, evidently, the patient felt that it was in her best interest to surround herself in life with this family and that they should be granted the same "end of life" rights and privileges of any "next of kin," therefore why wouldn't it be in the patient's best interest for her to be able to be with whomever she chooses as she moves from this life to the next, whether that be her best friend, mother, sister, a co-worker, an attorney, her therapist, and yes, even her lesibian lover. I would think that most can agree that a dying person should be granted the opportunity to give and be given a final goodbye to those people and things that were important in his or her life. Greater courtesy is given to dead men walking than was shown to this family.
  • tryg
    Without getting into the ridiculous religious debate that appears to be raging on here, I must say that this story seems to have a few holes in it to me.

    If any individual had legal right (via power-of-attorney or whatnot) to be there with a person, I can't understand any reason why that person would not utilize that power-of-attorney to legally force the hospital to allow them into the room with their loved ones. Why didn't you call an attorney, or ask if the hospital has an attorney that can explain why you are not being allowed in? There is no doubt that there are people who press their biased beliefs onto others, and that is disgusting to me in this situation, but if you have something like a power-of-attorney I don't understand how they can stop you. Furthermore, I would have called the police--Not 911--but the local police department is there to enforce the laws and could press the hospital to let you in.

    I have a really hard time believing that the social worker walked out introduced himself, and then said “you are in an anti-gay city and state. And without a health care proxy you will not see Lisa nor know of her condition”. First of all, that seems incredibly blatant, and secondly, I've never heard of "anti-gay" cities or states. I know some cities are more conservatively based where that majority of the population does not condone that lifestyle, and some are more liberally based where the majority of the population does condone that lifestyle, and of course a widely-varying spectrum of cities in-between the two extremes.

    Did the hospital have OTHER reasons for not allowing visitors? With her having had an aneurysm, is it possible that there were concerns that visitors may obstruct the process to save her life, whether they are family or not?

    If the story is not being exaggerated as it seems to me that it is, I don't understand exactly how you can't sue this hospital into the stone age. You had power-of-attorney. Life partner/adopted children aside, power-of-attorney is it.

    I certainly don't mean to sound as though I'm defending the hospital, because even though I am a straight white male, I've had my own problems with various hospitals on varying levels ranging from malpractice to not being allowed in to see people that I was there to visit even though the immediate family was standing right there saying that I should be allowed in. When my straight white grandmother lay dying after her bouts with heart disease and lymphoma had ravaged her body, I was not allowed in at times for health precautions; neither were my father or aunt or uncle or any other non-gay, immediate family members (and I would wager that we live in a fairly moderate city).

    I certainly do not doubt that what happened was tragic to say the least, but it seems to me that it is being blown up as this discriminatory situation, where it just doesn't seem likely.

    I challenge you to present legal documentation presenting the case, as well as the documents regarding the hospitals actions and of the judges ruling and his basis for that ruling. At that point I would gladly fight by your side against such atrocities, but until then this seems like a case of your perception of things vs. the hospitals.

    Regardless my heart does truly go out to the loved ones involved with this entire event, as I'm sure it was deeply traumatic and sorrowful. I hope that they will be comforted with time and fond memories of their lives together.
  • IIRC, the hospital didn't dispute the substance of Ms. Langbehn's portrayal of events. You're welcome to read the case, which I linked to in the post.

    It's easy to question decisions after the fact, but when a family member is in an emergent situation, talking to lawyers or police isn't first on your mind. The hospital administration and doctors have implicit and explicit authority, and you trust that authority. In this case, that trust was misplaced.

    Thanks for taking the time to comment.
  • tryg
    Is the hospital not disputing her accusations of discrimination? That they acted solely upon the fact that she and her partner were gay? I'm not exactly one who implicitly trusts authority, only that it is there and must be used when needed. I can certainly understand a panicked mind not going straight (seriously, no pun intended) for the route I suggested, but trying to run the scenario through my head hypothetically, should I be barred from visiting my loved one in a hospital for any reason it would take hell and high water to stop me. I'd be forcibly removed from the hospital before I'd just sit there, and I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't have to get that far. Basically I'm really just disputing that this happened simply because the women involved were lesbians. By no means do I think our society is where it needs to be in terms of accepting each other despite our differences, but it seems to me that the hospital (while possibly acting in an unprofessional and/or insensitive manner) was just trying to follow protocol, and that Janice Langbehn while desperately attempting to get to see her loved one (panicked or not), may have overlooked avenues which could have accomplished the goal she sought despite the alleged discrimination by the hospital.

    Again, either way you slice it, quite a terrible and unfortunate set of events, and I offer my condolences.
  • Matt, going back to the dismissal reproduced on the Langbehn-Ponds' website, it doesn't appear that the judge "essentially [found] that the Jackson Memorial Hospital was within its rights to leave a dying woman alone while denying her present and immediate family to visit her, be updated on her condition, or even to provide the hospital with medically necessary information." The judge seems to have looked at the case applying the same laws that would have been applied to a straight couple and their children, and found that with regard to some of the claims, the defendants have statutory immunity from suit and with regard to others, that the plaintiffs' suit failed to adequately state the hospital's duty or the harm done if a duty existed. With regard to the latter--duty and harm--the judge dismissed without prejudice, meaning the Langbehn-Ponds' may refile if they can expand their claims to a recognizable tort. The judge also commented, in the last paragraphs of his order, that he found the defendants' conduct to be insensitive and unbecoming a respectable medical institution.

    To explain how this would have happened to a straight couple, I think you need to actually read the order, because the judge effectively does just that, or at least points out that a straight couple treated in that way wouldn't have a tort lawsuit barring some further duty of the hospital or more egregious conduct.

    I think anger in this situation probably needs to be focused, at least at this point, on the hospital that treated a patient's loved ones so poorly and on Mr. Frederick, who is entitled to his bigotries but not to inflict them on suffering people.

    And on what is really (ironically) an unrelated note, I do hope marriage is eventually legalized for same-sex couples in all fifty states. You have my support in that, for whatever it's worth.
  • spiritualseeker
    My question is, what about the obvious dissonance between the hospital's stated policy and its (or its employees') actions? I don't find it at all unbelievable that an employee of the hospital told this woman that "this is an anti-gay state" or whatever. It's obviously that employee's personal opinion cloaked in "official" language in order to be intimidating. The issue isn't whether it would have been harm if a straight partner had the same experience. The point is, straight partners don't have that experience. State law might not protect the gay partner's civil rights, but the 14th Amendment does. And the hospital is guilty of hypocrisy at the very least. Boycott and political/PR pressure might be more effective than lawsuits. But I still say, sue the hell out of the hospital, for disregarding their own policy and causing harm and emotional distress to the family.
  • Hi Eric. Thanks for your comment.

    I did read the order, and what I said in the post is true. Part of the finding is that a hospital, in this case Jackson Memorial, has no obligation to allow families of patients (dying or otherwise) physical access or to be informed of their status, regardless of the patient's best interests.

    The biggest problem I have with this is that the standard claimed by the hospital and approved by the judge was not used consistently. That is, other families were led back into the trauma unit that day without a second thought. Ms. Pond's sister was given details on her location and condition without batting an eye. But Ms. Langbehn was denied both of these basic courtesies (for lack of a better term) even though Pond was unconscious and Langbehn was legally responsible for care decisions when Pond was incapacitated.

    Would she have done anything differently than the doctors decided? According to Langbehn in testimony before the court, in this case no. But that, to me, is a tertiary issue. There is at least a potential for having inappropriate care when a hospital administrator is permitted to ignore legal rights.

    The fact is that based on this ruling, lesbian and gay people in the 11th circuit are in danger, literal danger, if they are taken to a hospital. Administrators at Jackson Memorial and any other facility have a green light to actively ignore legal power of attorney rights. They can do that to anybody, but we know that there is precedent for doing it to us.
  • Matt, you raise some good points, although I think the issue really lies with the hospital, and with whether what they did is merely wrong or rises to the level of a tort, which is what a judge has to grapple with on a MTD. The fact that the hospital may have been inconsistent in their application of policy may be the reason the judge dismissed part of the complaint without prejudice--meaning that the Langbehn-Ponds' can refile if they can articulate the hospital's wrongs as a tort.

    Legal claims of discrimination are far, far, far trickier; I'd like to note that the judge dismissing a tort suit doesn't preclude valid (legal) claims of discrimination. Unfortunately, as a practical matter, I believe the law right now isn't going to recognize sexual orientation as a suspect class. (You'll have to forgive me if memory is pulling one on me right now; Con Law and Civil Rights law are both a long way behind in the rearview for me at this point.)

    But I also do have to point out that the issue you call a tertiary issue really isn't, as far as a court is concerned. It's not enough for a plaintiff to prove that the defendant acted badly--a plaintiff must also show that some harm arose as a result. And if Ms. Langbehn can't show a harm, then however reprehensible the hospital's actions (something the judge alluded to in his final paragraphs), there simply is no tort. There may well be good grounds for boycotting the hospital, or protesting, or publicizing that this is an institution that does not hold the best interests of the public first and foremost, but those things aren't necessarily going to be within the domain of tort law and a judge's obligations to follow it.

    I don't know if the Langbehn-Ponds availed themselves of the opportunity the judge gave to refile--the deadline, I believe, was this past Friday--but if there was an injury (beyond insult, however cruel) that arose from the hospital's conduct, they may still be able to prove it, and I hope they do.

    To the extent the judge gave the hospital a green light for the future, it seems to be a green light they already had. The proper routes for fixing that are through reform of the medical system and through legal guarantees against discrimination because of sexual orientation (I would include legalization of same-sex marriages under that latter item). If there's a role for the courts, I'm not seeing this case as necessarily being the vehicle for extending the interpretation of the XIVth Amendment to sexual orientation (which, I'd add, isn't something I'd oppose, so please don't interpret that comment as saying Amend. XIVth shouldn't, just that it currently doesn't).
  • adam stein
    Horrible, horrifying, inhumane ... This is upsetting beyond words. The reason why gays STILL can't get married in the US, is because not enough people, gay and straight, are OUTRAGED by this injustice. Unless it effects you personally, most people are apathetic at best. I hope that tragic stories like this wake people up to the apathy that breeds ignorance - and that nothing will change unless the good people in this country stand up for change, give it a voice, a name, a face, a meaning. What will you do as a result of reading this email? I personally will send it to everyone I know - asking them to think twice about their own rights. What if I were to swap your marriage for my "civil union?" Would you feel equally protected under the law? I think not. I think way more people would be outraged. And it's about time that everyone stand up and fight for equal rights for ALL of us.
  • Monica
    Actually, hospitals deny peoples rights all the time. I'm sorry to read this story but I don't think this is unique to LGBT's alone. Just think of all the control the hospitals have over a woman in labor (or just pregnant, for that matter). Hospitals should not have the final on most matters however they always scare people into it and take on more authority than they should ever be granted.
  • janicelangbehn
    But Monica.. life saving measures ended.. lisa became an organ donor - the docs said we could see her and we aren't talking a few minutes.. we are talking 8 hours Lisa lay alone dying with myself and our adopted foster children 20 feet away. There were no other traumas being run, she was in a curtained area with 2 other patients.. all nurses at the desk.. i remember it all from the 5 minutes Last Rites ceremony.. and then to have lisa's sister appear from a long drive - not showing ID, birth certs - and told oh we moved her an hour again - and this is where to go.. and yet the kids and I were sitting in front of her for 8 hours.

    it comes down to Lisa died alone, simple as that - and it was inhuman, cruel, unjust and I feel like failure to not be able to tell her I loved her one more time or for the kids to hold her hands while they were still warm.

    it breaks my heart into piece that I don't know if they will ever go back in place
  • Spartakis
    The hospital's decision seems reasonable enough to me.
  • robertcooper
    What's 'reasonable' about denying a dying woman's family the opportunity to see her one last time? To prevent her children from saying goodbye to their mother?
  • janicelangbehn
    please go to my blog and read my account from that night.. at www.theLPkids.com and see if you think it is reasonable to restrain someone for 8 hrs.. 6 hours after life saving measures stopped and deny them as they slip into a coma to feel the presence of their loved ones 20 feet away. I'm baffled by your response
  • Let God Handle it!
    PastorChurch said pretty clearly in the beginning of this disscussion "Judge not lesst ye be judged". Why not take everyone out of the equation except for the "Great Judge" and leave it to him. Let us not judge one another, fight for moral high ground, mob rule, etc. God said he will take care of it. I'm sure he will, to His own satisfaction. Not yours or mine!
  • janicelangbehn
    that may be fair, but how to do our children and myself become whole again? at our Holy Union back in 1991, I promised Lisa I would be with her through good times and bad, in time of health and sickness and I failed her
  • darker
    And WHO WILL JUDGE the judge, and all those other
    judges who are PATHETICALLY BIGOTED and CRUEL?

    They PROVE why many think--
    AMERICAN = A VICIOUS BIGOT.

    That "religion" is AN EXCUSE for BIGOTRY is proven constantly in
    our CRIMINAL "justice" system. It's certainly criminal!
  • cowcharge
    To all the religious folks: As many have said before, this country is NOT a Christian nation. It is a free nation. If you people want to run your lives according to 2000 year-old, man-made mythology, go right ahead. Leave the rest of us out of it, and stay the Hell out of our government, and out of our schools.
  • Singalullabye
    My first question is for people who are promoting Christianity, in particular Pastorchurch.

    In the Bible did Jesus ever turn ANY one away? Would Jesus discriminate?

    If he wouldn't why should you?

    http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/

    My second question is, have you ever read the Bible in any language other than English? Reading in Hebrew or Latin brings new translations and questions up.

    How Christian is it of you to discriminate? How is it Christian to hate or judge others? Our first thought should be for the children in this situation who have just lost their mother!

    Some food for thought. The books of the Bible were not written till after Jesus died, more than 30 years after. By old men. The Bible itself was not constructed till Emperor Constantine called the Council of Nicea—the first general council of the Christian church, in 325 A.D. No I am not pulling this from the Dan Brown book but from recorded fact. Do some research.
  • Jennifer
    This is unacceptable and profoundly cruel.
  • jojomogir
    "America wasn't established on the freedom of religion, but on the freedom of practicing Christian religion."

    Talk about "creationism". Where did you get this from? Many of the founding fathers were deists, including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Adams, Gouverneur Morris and possible Alexander Hamilton. Deists reject all religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God. Can you be Christian if you reject the bible (lower case on purpose)?

    Regardless of this fact, whether the United States was a Christian nation at the time of its founding, that has been categorically eliminated by amendments to the Constitution.
  • Name
    Wow...my wife and I and our two girls have often considered visiting Florida for a vacation--never again. I am horrified.
    -married Canadian lesbian & mom of 2.
  • God Lover
    I have to admit, it's a bit unnerving to hear Christians on this board mis-stating what a Christian should believe. Homosexuality is a sin, but it doesn't mean that lesbians should die alone. The most unfortunate thing here is that the laws of Florida/Miami prevented Lisa's family from seeing her. Obviously the fact that she was gay led to the law getting in their way.

    Jesus doesn't want people to die alone, or to be unloved, or hated and so on. But he doesn't want people to sin either. That being said, just because these women wear their sin on their sleeves doesn't mean they don't deserve compassion.
  • robertcooper
    If loving another human being is a sin, I hope I'm one day given the opportunity to 'sin' as wonderfully and as openly as these two women did.
  • Name
    I would just like to say that I am a homosexual young man that believes in God.

    I feel that God loves me, and I love God. My focus isn't, "How do I get into Heaven?" No. It's, "I love God. I love who he made me."

    I feel the Bible has been changed over the course of more than 3000 years. A lot of that time it was passed down by word of mouth... it had to be... There just aren't exactly worded translations... I believe the good book is missing some pages.

    Point is, I love God, and I love being who I was born as.

    God Made Me Gay. I wouldn't have it any other way. Thank you. =)
  • Tell it, my brother! Never lose sight of that truth, no matter how
    loud they yell!
  • robertcooper
    Rock on, my friend.

    Never let them make you ashamed of who you are. Never let them make you ashamed of loving somebody.
  • iggy
    What a very very sad story. My condolences to the spouse and beautiful children left behind. Working in health care I have had to see more death then I could ever imagine. Some were quick others long and drawn out. The thing I have learned is NO ONE should have to die ALONE. Everyone deserves that last handhold or the whisper of I love you in their ear before they pass.
    It should NOT matter in this day and age what colour you are your sexuality or your religion. There is destruction and famine every way you turn. Wars still going on recessions there are a million reasons to not place so much emphasis on who loves who - but be thankful that we are loved.
    I feel ashamed of that hospital, social worker and judge - maybe someone should let them know that it is 2009 .
    Again this is mainly for the family - I hope that with time your memories are filled with the love that you were blessed to share with your partner and children. NO ONE can take those things away from you.
    May you find solstice in your family and friends and within yourself.
  • janicelangbehn
    thank you iggy - I was a medical social worker and even told the sw this.. so when I did her last rites and saw her restrained I knew she was still perceiving things. I knew the kids need to start grieving.. nothing was being done until the brain flow study the next day to declare her brain dead so she could go on to save 4 lives with donating her organs as she made me promise her in the first years of us being together. you are right no one should die alone - and Lisa did. I remember trauma victims who maybe didn't have family and the nurse and I would sit and wait for death to come and this amazing nurse would sing amazing grace - I worked in a children's trauma unit.. and all I can think is that no one was there for lisa - no one. yet the kids and i were feet away begging to be let in
  • Shhh, Enough...
    People, people, enough. Please. This article was tragic, and sickening in the respect that this never should have happened... pastorbigotchurch, shut your internet lips a moment. No one asked your opinion about the Bible. And you can list as many quotes as you like, men (or women) are not perfect, so whatever they say or do is liable to be flawed.

    Besides, these two women probably led very, very good lives with their 4 beautiful children. Just because some man, or some group of men plopped something in a book about "same sex couples" it doesn't make it true. Remember, no one's perfect. And God sure didn't write the Bible with his own two hands. And for the love of mercy, don't say some bull like "He inspired these writers to put His thoughts into reality." Anyone can claim that. So quietly take your faith and Bible thumping elsewhere. This blog is to open people's eyes to the continued discrimination that plagues the country. Not to let you tell us we're all deluded and they got their just desserts. Who are you to judge? You're human just like the rest of us, and pray, pray as hard as you can that you are not forced to die alone by some trick of fate.

    Now, I'm done with that. And I want to say, most importantly, that I feel terrible for this family, and anyone that comes against anything like this. We can hope that in the future circumstances like these will have better outcomes, both for health and against discrimination.chip.schlange@gmail.com
  • randimiller
    Dear Pastorchurch -"You bring this upon us. 1 Cor. 6 - "homosexuals, male prostitutes (Sodomites) . . . shall NOT inherit the kingdom" Go ahead and complain and hate me for these words - however; you don't hate me - you hate God!"

    Umm...in this quote i believe that you completely altered the bible to no end. WTF!!! I am glad that you and him are so close that he told you to change the lines in the bible to fit your own stupid needs :) have a nice day!
  • J_Dalziel
    So, a friend of mine linked to this story tonight, and it's led me to an unpleasantly closer understanding of how some people can be so hateful and violent.

    'Cause what part of me *really* wants to do is hunt down the ****s responsible for this atrocious miscarriage of justice, douse them with a bucket of something really flammable, light a match and then watch them burn. A more insidious part wants to add my tiny effort to seeing the people responsible named, shamed and publicly castigated for this, but that will also cause at least as much harm as they have already done. More in sorrow than wrath is the ethically and spiritually better way, here.

    I'm not sure which offends me more, the judge, or the social worker? The judge does more harm because of his greater position of power, and higher media profile, but he's both a lawyer and a politician. Neither calling inspires much expectation of wisdom or compassion. The social worker though, his whole job is about helping those in need at their time of greatest trials. And he spat all over that ideal purely because he didn't approve of what two consenting adults may have gotten up to in private.

    It's not helpful, constructive or good for the world (or my own mental/spiritual well-being,) to plot revenge on these people, even as a passing fantasy. We are all better than that, my friends.

    We will not stoop to the level of these sickening acts.

    But ohhhh, you pathetic losers do make it tempting....
  • Bzuley
    I'm crying so hard for this family. Life is unjust enough without these cruelties. I lost my son's father and even though we weren't married, I know they would have let me see him if I were there.

    This is wrong.
  • janicelangbehn
    thank you Bzuley, don't cry for us.. go to our blog and there is a list of agencies you can turn your despair into action.. and ask for change on behalf of Lisa M. Pond
    peace
  • janicelangbehn
    Thank you everyone for your enlightening comments. I am the Janice of the story.. and for everyone who has long arguments. First and foremost - please remember my partner of 18 years died ALONE after it was suggested I stop medical intervention and prepared her for organ donation. She had to be restrained until she was brain dead - meaning she realized or felt something going on.. and ultimately our JOINTLY adopted kids - yes their birth certs say MOTHER and MOTHER - and I was kept from holding Lisa's hand... even after the doctors said we could be with her. We were waiting 8 hours. Lisa's sister showed up - no ID in hand - and I feel guilty for presenting her saying - "here is her sister" and only then finding out Lisa moved an hour earlier 1/2 way across that campus - I still can vomit when I replay what happened to the kids and I - and ultimately Lisa. And only then 8 hours later did I spend a little time with her.. it was after midnight and the kids finally saw her for the first time.

    I can't appeal the case -b/c the 11th circuit of appeals is very restrictive - they upheld that gay floridians cannot adopt.. what if they used our case to make more restrictive precedent.. how could I live with myself if I did that to your family? I can't be selfish and push the legal case, it's wrong if I then in turn cause your family pain. I hope that makes sense.

    1. I will NEVER know if I made the right decision to stop life saving treatment at about 3hrs in b/c I never saw lisa to know if what the docs were telling me is what I would know in my soul.
    2. I will NEVER get over feeling like a failure to Lisa for not being there to hold her hand and comfort her and the most important time.

    It's been over 2.5yrs since her death and the ruling from Judge Jordan made me relive her death like it just happened. I have spoken out through Lambda Legal - who has been beyond amazing in taking my case and Family Equality Council - and I have not asked nor received a dime off any of my speaking or interviews (sans 1 with the advocate for $300 that I then donated to Rosie's Broadway kids).

    Thank you all for your amazing support emotionally towards our family. On our blog I have listed several places you can write or call if you appalled with how we were treated .. and help me seek change. If anyone doubts I was told I was in an "anti-gay city and state" by Dr. Garnett Frederick the social worker - well I have a slew of people including my own family physician I called who I told that was said to me after only being there 20 minutes. And then I never saw that man again during the next 3 days while lisa's organs were matched - Please remember she was a saint on this earth - and she saved 4 lives through her organ donation - just as she wanted and told me to do nearly since the day we became a couple and began planning our lives. If I had wanted to make that up .. do you think I would think to say it to our friends as I called frantic to get our legal papers to hospital b/c they said I was in an anti-gay state and would not see lisa. Don't you think - that would come to me say 2 weeks later or longer to make it a sensational headline. It happened and he, God and I all know he said that to me.

    I miss her and the kids miss her with all our beings.
    peace

    family blog www.theLPkids.com
  • ICDK
    Janice, my heart and thoughts go to you and your children. I can't even imagine what you went through/are going through solely for your sexuality. I wish I could properly convey my dismay of the situation and dislike of those involved. I'm enraged.

    I wish you better times ahead and sincerely hope you find peace and happiness in the near future.

    With admiration.
  • janicelangbehn
    thank you ICDK - you said it perfectly.. when I come across long discssions about our case I sometimes chime in and tonight I am.. and yes I crying because I miss her beyond words.. so you just recognizing me and Lisa and kids as people that this happened to is more than enough for me.. thank you so much
    peace
  • Thank you for stopping in and taking the time to comment, Janice. Your perseverance is an inspiration.

    My best to you and your children.
  • sad but wondering...
    Well, that's a very sad story, but there is always two sides. It sounds like there is a lot of this story that is left out, like the legal reasoning behind dismissing the suit. I doubt the official court option stated: "Jackson Memorial Hospital was within its rights to leave a dying woman alone while denying her present and immediate family to visit her..." etc.
    I believe people shouldn't be treated differently because of their sexual orientation, but I'm always wary when clearly only one side of a story is told, you should be as well.
  • The decision is linked in the post so that you can read it for yourself. To save you the effort, I've pulled a few lines of the pertinent text.

    If, as the plaintiffs allege, Doctors Zauner and Cruz failed to allow visitation without a legitimate medical reason, it could be said that they were not as sympathetic as they should have been, and even exhibited a lack of sensitivity. But, as the Florida Supreme Court said in different context, “a cause of action does not exist for lack of empathy except, perhaps, for negligent or intentional infliction of emotional distress.”


    Essentially, Judge Jordan ruled that Jackson Memorial Hospital was within its rights to leave a dying woman alone while denying her present and immediate family to visit her.
  • Name
    Thanks for the cite, here's what's going on:
    - Keep in mind this trial was not to determine how right or wrong the hospital’s actions were. It was a lawsuit where the plaintiffs (the woman’s family) was trying to get money to compensate for the injury done to them. Basically, it was dismissed because the court determined there was no “injury” to the plaintiffs that was recognized under Florida law. It may be sad, it may be morally wrong, but it wasn’t LEGALLY wrong, so therefore the court can’t take money from the hospital and give it to the widowed partner.
    Also, the problem is not regarding gay rights, it’s regarding patient’s rights. They should have sued under a civil rights claim in my opinion, that would have framed the issue in the family’s favor.

    - The hospital workers and doctors were immune from tort claims under Florida law. It’s common for government agencies and their employees to be immune to this type of suit. I’m not saying that’s a good thing, but it’s a settled matter of law. If enough people don’t like it, they can have their legislature vote for a change in the law. A way the lawyer might be able to get around that would be to allege discrimination. But they did not. Mistake 1 by the plaintiff’s lawyer.

    - Once the hospital got the power of attorney, they included the partner in all the decisions and informed her of all relevant issues, as required by law. She dies, sadly, without the doctors able to do anything to save her. The partner agreed with their recommendations and did not ask for any different treatment than what she received. So, since they were suing for “damages” there is no issue here. Nothing different happened because of the hospital’s actions.

    - The partner did not allege that her lack of visitation impacted the outcome of the treatment in any way. If she had, that would have been a matter-of-fact, and that might have at least gotten the case to a jury, who would have been sympathetic and ignore the law in favor of the grieving family. That was another bad tactical decision on the part of the attorney.
    Another way it could have gotten to the jury was to allege that the denial of visitation was based on her sexual orientation, which I think is a case that might be plausible. At least enough to get it to a jury trial. Again, bad attorney.

    There is more to this case but I think those observations are enough to show it isn’t a matter of a court hating gays. It’s a combination of patients rights being sucky in Washington and a lazy attorney for the family.
  • Name
    Florida rather
  • Name
    Appeal, go all the way to the Supreme Court! Can a civil suit be brought for violation of power of attorney and living will issues? Disgusting!
  • Gin1
    First of all, I'm terribly saddened by the loss of your life-partner. I cannot imagine life without my husband. I cannot imagine having to go through what you did, you and your children. To know that you were denied in this day and age is inconceivable. Having read your story reminds me of "If These Walls Could Talk 2", a similar case that happened in the '50s. It angers me to the point of feeling powerless knowing that this still happens. I'm not a lawyer, so pardon me for lacking in legal jargon: Are you able to take this to a higher court?
  • janicelangbehn
    yes lisa and I both watched if these walls could talk 2.. we were in the "ellen" phase of getting her pregnant - in the end we adopted. But we felt so hurt by the older woman and vowed AGAIN we would never let that happen to each other - and after I was dx with MS in 1999 - that is when we had the power of attorneys and living wills drawn up. We openly discussed our end of life wished. Lisa and I were present at my grandmother's bedside when she died, with my grandpa and we thought how wonderful and peace and dignified it all was with us all with her... and I contrast that with what happened to her and it makes me want to vomit all over again
  • jeannettelewis
    I hope you and your lovely children are healing, this story makes me terribly sad as does the misdirection of the discussion.
  • aja1177
    Everyone has good points and some have no views on human rights. Although same sex marriage & domestic partnership are granted in some states we have those from every aspect that are completely ignorant.

    Those who comment on LGBT matters and claim to understand are in denial. Why even state your opinion on their marriage status, when the real matter is that, a Power of Attorney and living will were drawn up and present, that the state, judge and social worker did not grant. Therefore not just LGBT but heterosexuals as well really have no security if a situation such as this should arise. What does that tell us about our gov't? There really is no wrong & right for both sides. We're screwed!!!

    People be comfortable with who you are and forget the ignorant people surely we have the right to express our feelings as well as being recognized not just an LGBT but a person. We are no better than those ignorant people if we continue to allow them to fight the pursuit of our happiness. 50% of our nation are LGBT and many successful ones for that matter let us not focus a war on ignorant people that have difficulties understanding, let us move forward with what rights are we entitled too...
  • h
    It happened in Washington too... It is not just about the hateful state of Florida people. This happens more often than we all want to believe.

    this is a link to Janice's comments about Charlene Strong who's partner Kate was taken to Harborview Hospital here in Seattle. She was also denied access to Kate until a relative was reached and gave permission. http://thelpkids.com/2008/10/01/for-my-wife-doc...

    There is a documentary produced about her story called "for my wife..."

    We need to fight for our families!
  • brianestarke
    To janicelangbehn, My condolences for your losses: the loss of your partner, the loss of a chance to say goodbye, and the loss in the law suit to gain redress. My condolences to your family for the same reasons. Your suffering and bravery have brought closer the day when all people can enjoy the rights that are due them. It often takes something as outrageous as this to get people to see bigotry for what it is. May what ever you hold dear sustain you through the times ahead. You are obviously a good person who has greatness within.
  • brianestarke
    To pastorchurch: just so I can be clear, were you claiming I am a homosexual or a male prostitute? I notice you still haven't given us your real name. Coward. People who really believe they was doing God's work also believe that God will protect them. I see no evidence of this faith in you.

    Brian E. Starke (still my real name)
  • Bob
    Oh come one.. Look at Matt. He looks about as queer as they come. Dont let him upset you. He's probably just some bitter old drag queen. lol
  • uneasebody
    Dear pastor....

    I am a christian, though not of your catholic religion denomination. I am of one that doesn't thrive on pure profit and money alone. We don't have a Vatican that holds the largest amount of pornography in it. We don't have priest that molest alter boys. But that's really not what we are here to discuss, now is it? Heck, my bible doesn't look the same as yours or many others I have seen.

    Bottom line....we do believe in the same God. What disturbs me most about your posts is your judgemental nature.

    No offense.....but we as humans have no rights to judge others. That is God's job....and God's job alone. As a man of God, as you call yourself.....I would think you of all people would know this.
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